Group Rides - Tail Gunner ???

Been on many group rides over the past 3 years, all fun, some more than others. No news here, more riders means slower progress,
delays and greater possibilities of group segmentation and/or cage infiltration. There are many techniques to address the issues of
large group rides, most require knowledge and participation by one or more participants.

As an alternative, seems like groups of 5-7 machines, 5 minutes apart, is more manageable and maybe safer overall, especially
when passing through populated areas. Line of sight and capability to slow down without huge traffic impact seem to promote
natural group cohesion.

So, interested in opinions on whether a group of 5-7 can ride safely without a connected tail gunner???

Our group has a mix of bikes. We try to keep a group to 6 bikes with a tail gunner for each group if we have more than one. We ride about 1/2 mile apart in each group. The responsibility of the tail gunner is to Sheppard the riders in front of them and to become the "bread crumb" if the 2nd group gets to far behind at a turn during the ride.

Can you ride without a tail gunner? Yes, but by default, the last rider becomes the tail gunner.

Unless it is an organized ride that has a police escort, I am not a fan of using blockers at intersections. Cagers are under no obligation to respect the group in that case.

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Originally Posted by spyderfish

So, interested in opinions on whether a group of 5-7 can ride safely without a connected tail gunner???

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Sure. IF all of the riders are competent and experienced.

And without a sweeper who is radio connected, EACH rider needs to pay closer attention to his rear view mirror.
Too easy for the last one or two riders to drop off because of trouble and go un-noticed.

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Originally Posted by spyderfish

Been on many group rides over the past 3 years, all fun, some more than others. No news here, more riders means slower progress,
delays and greater possibilities of group segmentation and/or cage infiltration. There are many techniques to address the issues of
large group rides, most require knowledge and participation by one or more participants.

As an alternative, seems like groups of 5-7 machines, 5 minutes apart, is more manageable and maybe safer overall, especially
when passing through populated areas. Line of sight and capability to slow down without huge traffic impact seem to promote
natural group cohesion.

So, interested in opinions on whether a group of 5-7 can ride safely without a connected tail gunner???

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HI, Reach out to any member in the Spyderquest committee Ron rnet, Dave/and Lori O'Neal, Silvano/ Linda, ( Spyderquest is in Lake George, New York in Sept. ) about Tail gunner ideas.
Deanna

Back in the day...

When I was a member of a large group (50 plus bikes), that is kind of how we worked it out.

Groups were broken down into less than 10. They left about five minutes between the next group. We also had them based on skill levels. Faster, more experienced riders went in the earlier groups.

The last couple years, I volunteered to be the captain of the "newby" group. They had to ride with me before they could "graduate" to one of the other groups.

All groups had a tail gunner...just to be safe. In the ten years I was with the group...there was never an accident or close call. Safety issues cropped up at the end...and we decided to part company.

A group is only as strong as its weakest link. We no longer do group rides...unless we know each person involved.

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Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Sure. IF all of the riders are competent and experienced.

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:agree:

TWO people riding "in a group" won't be safe if either one of them rides "unsafe" or makes poor decisions. No tail gunner can prevent bad things happening if a group rider rides unsafely to begin with.

Everything else is just for the convenience of the group. Having a tail gunner to wait up for stragglers is not a safety issue reason. It's to make sure the straggler turns at the next corner the rest of the group turned at. And if I'm riding in the middle of the group and get "separated" from the part of the group in front of me (like when passing other vehicles on a two-lane road), once I'm "next in line" to pass the vehicle the part of the group in front of me already passed, I'm "on my own" to get around that vehicle using my own competence and experience. I should never totally rely on anyone else to make good decisions for me to try to "catch up". My bike, my life, my responsibility.

The older I got the less I rode with! Now no more than a couple now.

Groups always had a TG, helped keep the group tight.

Breaking group up into smaller ones is a lot safer IMO.

Since we already are used to the definition of a tail gunner. Taking a page from air force jargon, you can break up a squadron of bikes into smaller flights. Each flight would have a flight leader who leads the group and an experienced rider becomes the de facto tail gunner of that same group.

We used to have an annual group ride of 20-ish bikes, where we broke it up into 3 or 4 flights. Worked well.

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Originally Posted by akspyderman

When I was a member of a large group (50 plus bikes), that is kind of how we worked it out.

Groups were broken down into less than 10. They left about five minutes between the next group. We also had them based on skill levels. Faster, more experienced riders went in the earlier groups.

The last couple years, I volunteered to be the captain of the "newby" group. They had to ride with me before they could "graduate" to one of the other groups.

All groups had a tail gunner...just to be safe.

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That is pretty much the Goldwing Road Riders Association rules and training. 8 to 10 max in a group recommended. If you've got 13+ riding, then absolutely break into smaller groups, each with captain and TG.

Every Saturday we ride to lunch or breakfast depending on the WX. We generally have 8-15 in the group. Most have Spyders and no CBs. We publish a map as most have GPSs in case we get separated by stop lights, etc. We ride back roads as much as possible. We are long time riders and have not had a problem.

I tend to ride with groups of 5 or less 95% of the time. Once a year, we have a Mid Atlantic Meet of the M109 group. We have anywhere from 10-20 in our group. When the numbers get above 8, we break into 2 distinctive groups. We have a fast group (leader and tailgunner), and a slightly slower group (leader and tail gunner). Within each group, if the numbers are above 10, the group will break again. Typically I am leading, since I am more familiar with the area then most. And my long time riding buddy is the tail gunner, as he also knows the routes, and likes to go at a more relaxed pace. We have been doing this for over 12 years, and it has worked great. I just recently (over the past 4-5 years) have started being the leader, as my riding skills and knowledge of the roads has increased. But regardless, we have a rule of never leaving anyone behind. We always gather and wait at any stop signs or turn offs. This has worked great when we are in the NC/Tenn mountains.

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Originally Posted by Deanna777

HI, Reach out to any member in the Spyderquest committee Ron rnet, Dave/and Lori O'Neal, Silvano/ Linda, ( Spyderquest is in Lake George, New York in Sept. ) about Tail gunner ideas.
Deanna

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The way we run it at Spyderquest is with a ride captain and a tailgunner. As the group approaches a stop sign, intersection, turn, etc, the ride captain will motion to the rider directly behind him/her. That person will pull off onto the side of the road and will act as the spotter (or "breadcrumb" as someone else mentioned) to direct the rest of the group. When the tailgunner catches up to the spotter, the spotter will pull back into line directly in front of the tailgunner. After that, it's just lather, rinse, repeat through the ride. We go over this method during the opening night meet-n-greet.

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Originally Posted by Trbayth

The way we run it at Spyderquest is with a ride captain and a tailgunner. As the group approaches a stop sign, intersection, turn, etc, the ride captain will motion to the rider directly behind him/her. That person will pull off onto the side of the road and will act as the spotter (or "breadcrumb" as someone else mentioned) to direct the rest of the group. When the tailgunner catches up to the spotter, the spotter will pull back into line directly in front of the tailgunner. After that, it's just lather, rinse, repeat through the ride. We go over this method during the opening night meet-n-greet.

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I liked this method when I went to Spyderquest. But it seems it's not used at other rallies. I guess people just want to ride and not have any responsibility to the group. Too bad.

By definition, a "tail gunner" is the last person in the formation, regardless of the group's size. His responsibility is to stay at the end of the group and if CB equipped, relay information to the leader in case part of the group gets separated by traffic, stop lights, etc. He should also "block" the lane if the leader signals a lane change, so that the rest of the riders can merge into that lane.
In any group ride, each person is responsible for the rider behind him. For instance, if the last person in the group (the tail gunner) slows down for some reason, the rider in front of him should slow down as well, to keep them together. In turn, the next person up the line should do the same, until it reaches the group leader. This way the group stays together. In cases where part of the group gets separated by a car(s) cutting into the formation, or by a traffic light, the leading group should move over to the slower lane (or stop, if possible) and wait for the separated group to catch up.
I have been a member of a motorcycle club for almost 20 years and have done many group rides with them without any problems. When you ride with people you are familiar with, you develop a sense of security because you know exactly what to expect from the riders in your group. We know each person's strengths and weaknesses, and we adjust to them. Sometimes, we divide the group into "hares" and "turtles". Those who want to go ahead and burn through the twisties form their group and will wait for the "turtles" to catch up at a predetermined spot.
Now that I traded my Harley for a Spyder, I became the group's "tail gunner".
Group riding can be a lot of fun, but you need to know the people you are riding with. Otherwise it can be a nightmare...

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Originally Posted by Trbayth

The way we run it at Spyderquest is with a ride captain and a tailgunner. As the group approaches a stop sign, intersection, turn, etc, the ride captain will motion to the rider directly behind him/her. That person will pull off onto the side of the road and will act as the spotter (or "breadcrumb" as someone else mentioned) to direct the rest of the group. When the tailgunner catches up to the spotter, the spotter will pull back into line directly in front of the tailgunner. After that, it's just lather, rinse, repeat through the ride. We go over this method during the opening night meet-n-greet.

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Hi, Here is a picture of me as a rider( or Breadcrumb) at a intersection pointing in the direction that riders in the group should go: This was taken in New York on 1 of the rides.

Deanna