Info that might help when replacing front sprocket!

Not wanting to wait the month a local dealer told him it would take to do the front sprocket recall, a friend asked me to replace it. I've already done 4 or 5 replacements, and found that some will slide right off, and others will bind up on the shaft. This one would not come off easily. Rather than reaching for a pulley puller tool, I tried to wiggle it around, since it has a lot of play on the shaft. I found that by carefully feeling for the exact point that the pulley would have been riding on the shaft as if it had no play, it slid right off. The installed position of the sprocket allows for a ridge to be worn in the sprocket that will catch on the start of the splines of the engine shaft when you try to remove it. I've attached photos of the wear on the inside of the sprocket, and the amount of rust dust that was deposited all over the surrounding area. If you try to replace the sprocket yourself, don't try to pry it off, it will just bind harder on the cut ridge. Even a pulley puller could start off crooked and possibly damage the shaft. This was on a 2018 RTL.

Where are you getting the new parts from? Are you replacing the pulleys with the original OEM pulleys or the fantasy un-obtainium metal pulleys that are supposed to be the final solution?

I would just get the parts and keep them in my shop to replace the pulley myself if they were available anywhere. The dealership can't or won't order them for me to use, and they don't seem to be able to get any parts to do the recall either.

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Originally Posted by Gwolf

Where are you getting the new parts from? Are you replacing the pulleys with the original OEM pulleys or the fantasy un-obtainium metal pulleys that are supposed to be the final solution?

I would just get the parts and keep them in my shop to replace the pulley myself if they were available anywhere. The dealership can't or won't order them for me to use, and they don't seem to be able to get any parts to do the recall either.

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The owner ordered it through a local dealer. I just installed it for him...

Good for you! There have been some who used a slide hammer. Not a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Jetfixer

The owner ordered it through a local dealer. I just installed it for him...

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Thanks, at least I know they are available. I got some other places to check with.

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Originally Posted by Jetfixer

The owner ordered it through a local dealer. I just installed it for him...

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Jetfixer, that looks like a white sprocket, not silver. Is that just a trick of PC screen colouration?

Pete

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Originally Posted by Peteoz

Jetfixer, that looks like a white sprocket, not silver. Is that just a trick of PC screen colouration?

Pete

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It's the white one. I have seen both the white and the silver replacement sprockets have the same part number...

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Originally Posted by Jetfixer

It's the white one. I have seen both the white and the silver replacement sprockets have the same part number...

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Ahhhhhhh. But if you have installed the white sprocket, that means you haven’t actually done the “recall”, Jetfixer. The recall requires the silver sprocket with the spacer. The white sprocket simply addresses the whine that was heard on the early ‘20+ models that were using the original sprocket. I would be very surprised if the white sprocket, and the new silver sprocket with the additional spacer have the same part number, as the silver sprocket has been modified to allow for the spacer……… signed….very confused. :dontknow:

Pete

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Originally Posted by Peteoz

Ahhhhhhh. But if you have installed the white sprocket, that means you haven’t actually done the “recall”, Jetfixer. The recall requires the silver sprocket with the spacer. The white sprocket simply addresses the whine that was heard on the early ‘20+ models that were using the original sprocket. I would be very surprised if the white sprocket, and the new silver sprocket with the additional spacer have the same part number, as the silver sprocket has been modified to allow for the spacer……… signed….very confused. :dontknow:

Pete

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That's true, Pete, and I too have some confusion about the part numbers and the clearly identifiable differences between the White sprocket and the Silver sprocket that should have the machining on it to mate with the washer!?! :gaah:

I'm beginning to think that maybe BRP is trying to get around this by using the same part numbers for either of the 'sprockets' by themselves, while the 'Recall Kit', which includes the machined sprocket; the washer; and the screw, have a different number!! :shocked:

And at least here in Oz, possibly also in NZ, it looks like you'n I don't seem to be able to purchase the complete Recall Kit as such, but we can buy just a sprocket, which may or may not be White or Silver; and if it is Silver, which may or may not be machined to mate with the washer, but apparently doesn't actually come with the washer, altho it appears some dealers may be supplying their own washers?!? Maybe this is just a confused dealer thing; possibly it's a dodgy dealer thing :mad: or maybe it's being driven by some BRP department &/or on the directions of BRP Head Office itself... :cus: I just dunno :dontknow:

But while it should be quite straightforward, something odd is going on somewhere between BRP Head Office & the Spyder Owners that want their 'recall eligible' Spyders to have the 'final recall' version Silver Sprocket, washer, & screw fitted; and it is confusing! And AFAICS, it's not necessarily just confusing to us 'end users' & Spyder Owners either! :banghead: :gaah:

Mind You, Jetfixer's solution to getting these 'difficult to remove' sprockets off is a smart move - but then, why has it taken an 'end user/unpaid Beta tester' to work this out and publish it?! :cus: :bdh:

Yes, I agree completely that Jetfixer’s solution is a ripper, Peter:2thumbs: …..obvious when you think of it…..well, maybe not THAT obvious, as I didn’t think of it :ohyea: …..

I wonder if ANY non shop members have been able to buy the silver sprocket and washer, or if BRP is only releasing them to dealers/authorised shops, as dealers/shops would be the only ones who should have these as it is part of the safety recall.
Signed, Even MORE confused :2thumbs:

Pete

What seems obvious to me, is that the silver pulley, washer, and bolt, with the new part numbers on them, are simply replacement items for parts that can and will wear out. If those items are not placed in the supply chain, there will be a lot of Spyders sitting and waiting on parts. It has been long enough since the original recall notification to have worn some of the first ones that were replaced out. Every dealership and parts room should have several boxes containing those parts on the shelf. A manufacturer could have geared up with the proper specs and turned out enough of those parts to fix every Spyder in existence by now.

There is a word pronounced Can't ....... and another word pronounced Won't................

I had my temporary fix done the end of July last year (2022), and because of a surgery I postponed having the final recall fix done in May of this year. Dealer had no issue getting the parts. Once I was able to ride I called to setup the appointment for the fix and they had the part in less than a week. It seems ludicrous that this has gone on this long, and hearing dealers say they can't get parts for this. Shame on BRP (or their dealers).

I have worked on this particular bike, and many others over the years. I made it very obvious that I cannot "clear" the recall. However, that said, even now the parts catalogs do NOT show the silver sprocket WITH a washer. And as further proof that something is askew at BRP, the 2020 and up 1330 Spyders are NOT subject to this recall. But for some reason, this white sprocket IS the correct replacement for 2020 and newer bikes with the air induced whining sound. I personally replaced my own and my significant others' sprockets for this very reason on our 2020 RTL and 2021 F3L's. The 1330 motor has not changed over the years as relates to the transmission output shaft that this sprocket rides on, so I fail to see the difference is requiring the as yet unobtainable silver sprocket and washer. It's my personal opinion that BRP has had supplier issues with ANY replacement sprockets. If anything has changed over the model years on the 1330, it's the sprockets, NOT the output shaft.

Interesting, Jetfixer. Have you (or anyone) actually seen any recall notices for ‘20+ Spyders as yet? Have you replaced ‘20+ sprockets with the white sprocket because some ‘20+ OEM sprockets are failing? How do you know that the white sprocket is the replacement for the ‘20+ OEM sprocket? (I.e. is the old sprocket no longer available on the spare parts ordering list?)
Please don’t get me wrong……. I am not questioning to critique, as you are right up there on the “common sense” chart, but simply to obtain info:2thumbs:

I vaguely recall seeing an actual recall notice for a pre ‘20 model that showed the required sprocket and washer part numbers. I’ll see if I can find it. It certainly looks like the silver sprocket and washer are definitely not going to be released to the public.

Pete

THE NEW REPLACEMENT SPROCKET IS SILVER

I have a copy of the Warranty Bulletin #2019-10 rev 1 September29,2022
Required parts, front sprocket kit, (includes washer)219800553 needed 1
listed as screw 250001017 needed 1
use loctite 609 or 603 torque to 111 lbf-ft +-4
No cure time listed.

CHECK THE NUMBERS ON YOUR DEALER PAPERWORK!

Way too much misinformation on this issue since the start of the problem,
We need everyone on the same page in the same book.

T.P.

from BRP recall page https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/ca/en...072.1702337744

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Originally Posted by T.P.

THE NEW REPLACEMENT SPROCKET IS SILVER

I have a copy of the Warranty Bulletin #2019-10 rev 1 September29,2022
Required parts, front sprocket kit, (includes washer)219800553 needed 1
listed as screw 250001017 needed 1
use loctite 609 or 603 torque to 111 lbf-ft +-4
No cure time listed.

CHECK THE NUMBERS ON YOUR DEALER PAPERWORK!

Way too much misinformation on this issue since the start of the problem,
We need everyone on the same page in the same book.

T.P.

from BRP recall page https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/ca/en...072.1702337744

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603 Green has a 72 hour curing time, per product data sheet provided by Locktite.
609 Green has a 24 hour curing time, per product data sheet provided by Locktite.

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Originally Posted by Peteoz

Interesting, Jetfixer. Have you (or anyone) actually seen any recall notices for ‘20+ Spyders as yet? Have you replaced ‘20+ sprockets with the white sprocket because some ‘20+ OEM sprockets are failing? How do you know that the white sprocket is the replacement for the ‘20+ OEM sprocket? (I.e. is the old sprocket no longer available on the spare parts ordering list?)
Please don’t get me wrong……. I am not questioning to critique, as you are right up there on the “common sense” chart, but simply to obtain info:2thumbs:

I vaguely recall seeing an actual recall notice for a pre ‘20 model that showed the required sprocket and washer part numbers. I’ll see if I can find it. It certainly looks like the silver sprocket and washer are definitely not going to be released to the public.

Pete

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Pete, as far as I know there is no recall for the 2020 plus models.

The white sprocket was a replacement for the noise issue that a lot of people were complaining about on the 2020 and newer models. Some say that it works, and some say it doesn't.

I have a new white sprocket and bolt just in case I need it but I took care of my noise issue by adjusting the rear wheel tension and alignment.
Once I got that where I wanted it the noise went away. I will say that I am "VERY" hard of hearing so I'm sure that plays into it as well.

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Originally Posted by Gwolf

603 Green has a 72 hour curing time, per product data sheet provided by Locktite.
609 Green has a 24 hour curing time, per product data sheet provided by Locktite.

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FWIW, Loctite primers, such as Primer N or Primer T can be used as stated on the instructions to decrease set and full cure durations. Great products I have used many times. I do believe it will increase the bond line strength also.

Just use all Loctite products with care for this pulley installation. Loctite that wicks or was accidentally applied to the spacer can bond the spacer to the shaft, or worse, possibly cause issue disassembling the gearbox if ever needed.

Green Loctite 609 is its similar cousins is a very powerful threadlocker or liquid shim when used as directed. I have witnessed 5/8 diameter studs, aerospace grade studs used to secure propellers on turboprop engines, snap off in the aluminum hubs and require edm for removal.

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Originally Posted by Jetfixer

Not wanting to wait the month a local dealer told him it would take to do the front sprocket recall, a friend asked me to replace it. I've already done 4 or 5 replacements, and found that some will slide right off, and others will bind up on the shaft. This one would not come off easily. Rather than reaching for a pulley puller tool, I tried to wiggle it around, since it has a lot of play on the shaft. I found that by carefully feeling for the exact point that the pulley would have been riding on the shaft as if it had no play, it slid right off. The installed position of the sprocket allows for a ridge to be worn in the sprocket that will catch on the start of the splines of the engine shaft when you try to remove it. I've attached photos of the wear on the inside of the sprocket, and the amount of rust dust that was deposited all over the surrounding area. If you try to replace the sprocket yourself, don't try to pry it off, it will just bind harder on the cut ridge. Even a pulley puller could start off crooked and possibly damage the shaft. This was on a 2018 RTL.

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Years ago, long before the recall, some owners and shops experienced pulleys that would not remove from the shaft. I suggested to remove the pulley retaining bolt, leave the belt on, start the Spyder and with engine running shift from 1 to R while spraying a light oil into the spline area. Ultimately ending with R then N. Shut it down, remove belt and remove pulley.

As you mentioned, worn splines must align just right for easiest removal.

The odd concern though, is why have the 2018 models started seeing failed, as in snapped off gearbox output shafts? Could be a heat treatment error, or the material became embrittle. More likely the grinder for the shaft ran dry and puts grinding cracks into the steel which initiated the onset of the failure.

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Originally Posted by K80Shooter

Pete, as far as I know there is no recall for the 2020 plus models.

The white sprocket was a replacement for the noise issue that a lot of people were complaining about on the 2020 and newer models. Some say that it works, and some say it doesn't.

I have a new white sprocket and bolt just in case I need it but I took care of my noise issue by adjusting the rear wheel tension and alignment.
Once I got that where I wanted it the noise went away. I will say that I am "VERY" hard of hearing so I'm sure that plays into it as well.

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Ahhhhhhh. Thanks Jetfixer. So you replaced the bad sprocket on a 2018 RT-L with a white sprocket? ……. And thanks to T.P. For saving me the trouble of looking for his “recall part number” post. I’ll have a look for the part number of the white sprocket now to see what differences there are (if any). The plot thickens…..

Pete

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Originally Posted by T.P.

THE NEW REPLACEMENT SPROCKET IS SILVER

I have a copy of the Warranty Bulletin #2019-10 rev 1 September29,2022
Required parts, front sprocket kit, (includes washer)219800553 needed 1
listed as screw 250001017 needed 1
use loctite 609 or 603 torque to 111 lbf-ft +-4
No cure time listed.

CHECK THE NUMBERS ON YOUR DEALER PAPERWORK!

Way too much misinformation on this issue since the start of the problem,
We need everyone on the same page in the same book.

T.P.

from BRP recall page https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/ca/en...072.1702337744

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Thank you for the information, and I totally agree that we should all be on the same page. Unfortunately, BRP does not seem to agree. Every online parts fiche I can find does NOT show the front sprocket as having a washer.