Don't Be Fooled! Looking at you DOES NOT mean they SEE you!

I just read an article by Jay Leno in Haggerty - Driver's Club magazine. If you aren't familiar. Leno is a big enthusiast and has a large collection of vehicles, including motorcycles. He owns the 1st production Spyder. And he rides/drives them as well.

Speaking about motorcycle safety, he advises 'Riding any motorcycle, especially in Los Angeles, takes some skill and focus. Whenever I'm at a light, I look right at the other drivers and try to make eye contact so I know they see me.'

My advice? Don't get fooled! This is not a great idea at all. A driver can, and will, look right at you and not see you. You think you have connection and ride accordingly. But many times, you don't. It's a trap. Not to mention that you're spending precious time, laser focused on one stationary person, when you should be taking in the entire dynamic picture.

Instead, use your time to identify your hazards and assume other drivers DON'T see you at all. it's the only way to stay safe. This approach is even more essential when you are moving.

Forget the eye contact. You can't know what is in another person's head. Rely on the only brain, vision, and vehicle you control. Assumptions can be dangerous.

Have a Great Christmas!

At intersections, I keep an eye on the vehicle's front wheel for forward movement. Any, and will be more cautious.

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Originally Posted by baxter

at intersections, i keep an eye on the vehicle's front wheel for forward movement. Any, and will be more cautious.

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THIS!!

I have lived by this for my entire riding career and has saved me many times...

I look to see which way he is looking.
See were his wheels are pointing and if they are moving.
And keep my head on a swivel for the other idiot trying to kill me.
Also watch for pedestrians, you never know what they will do.

RE: Eye contact...there are some people out there that will take eye contact as an affront. If they consider it dis-respect or similar, you could end up in a road rage type of situation.

I also watch that front wheel very carefully. :bowdown:

I found this article useful in understanding my and others' driving vision https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-f...-on-the-roads/

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Originally Posted by BajaRon

I just read an article by Jay Leno in Haggerty - Driver's Club magazine. If you aren't familiar. Leno is a big enthusiast and has a large collection of vehicles, including motorcycles. He owns the 1st production Spyder. And he rides/drives them as well.

Speaking about motorcycle safety, he advises 'Riding any motorcycle, especially in Los Angeles, takes some skill and focus. Whenever I'm at a light, I look right at the other drivers and try to make eye contact so I know they see me.'

My advice? Don't get fooled! This is not a great idea at all. A driver can, and will, look right at you and not see you. You think you have connection and ride accordingly. But many times, you don't. It's a trap. Not to mention that you're spending precious time, laser focused on one stationary person, when you should be taking in the entire dynamic picture.

Instead, use your time to identify your hazards and assume other drivers DON'T see you at all. it's the only way to stay safe. This approach is even more essential when you are moving.

Forget the eye contact. You can't know what is in another person's head. Rely on the only brain, vision, and vehicle you control. Assumptions can be dangerous.

Have a Great Christmas!

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Thanks for this reminder! I always try to act as though they don't see me. Merry Christmas to all!

I made eye contact with a lady and then she looked down at her seat, looked back up at me, and pulled right out in front of me. I ended up right in a muddy swamp trying to avoid her. Thanks to several witnesses who were more than willing to get muddy, they helped me get my Harley back onto the pavement.

I assume nothing! Having a green light just means the other guy MAY stop for a red..... But that doesn't always happen. Lots of people around here are killed by red light runners. Be vigilant, always know others are idiots and stay safe..... Jim

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Originally Posted by 2dogs

I made eye contact with a lady and then she looked down at her seat, looked back up at me, and pulled right out in front of me. I ended up right in a muddy swamp trying to avoid her. Thanks to several witnesses who were more than willing to get muddy, they helped me get my Harley back onto the pavement.

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That's no lady...

Agree all except about assuming. Watch the wheels. Watch the heads. Watch all other body parts, even wave and say Hi!

And then ASSUME: Every other driver has seen you and is trying to kill you. No accident, no mistake. They are trying to kill you. On purpose. Nothing accidental.

BTW, I drive all my vehicles this way, even in the old days when work vehicles had special markings, overhead lights and sirens you’d think would offer special deference….

Stay Safe

Thank you Ron, for this reminder. It has been my experience that even if they see you, they will still ignore you or figure you are not a significant part of the traffic pattern or that they have the right of way even if they really don't. I agree and have used the watch the wheels method all my riding life but do not fixate on a single car. The car has to go where the wheels go.

I think its the Australians that coined the term 'SMIDSY' (Sorry mate I didn't see you) .

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Originally Posted by OregonBrian

I think its the Australians that coined the term 'SMIDSY' (Sorry mate I didn't see you) .

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I got broadsided in a firetruck. Hit me right in my door.

Guess what the guy said (once he recovered).

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Originally Posted by BertRemington

I found this article useful in understanding my and others' driving vision https://www.portsmouthctc.org.uk/a-f...-on-the-roads/

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I came across that article quite a few years ago when I had my Goldwing and have kept the admonitions in mind since. Another vision fact I came across a few years ago. Interestingly, our eyes are more sensitive to motion at the periphery than straight ahead. That's why modulated headlights are beneficial. A driver stopped at a stop sign is more likely to be aware of motion to his sides than straight ahead. So what you really want is not for the other driver to look straight at you, but be turning their head back and forth so that the brain receives signals of movement, not a stationary object. The brain tends to filter out still images and focuses on moving images.

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Originally Posted by BajaRon

I got broadsided in a firetruck. Hit me right in my door.

Guess what the guy said (once he recovered).

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He very well may not have actually "seen" you. Our brains do the "seeing" based on the data it receives from our eyes. Still images are boring and the brain tends to filter them out.

From my 2 wheeled cycling days, at stop signs and lights, being abnormally "antsy", I rocked my cycles left and right and turned my handlebars back and forth, I think that has made some cage drivers nervous about "what was I gonna do/where what I headed". On my RT at busy intersections, I still try to remember to do this, I think that makes the front fender lights move enough to attract some attention. I also think all those folks who have mounted the driving spots to the front inside fender mount that allows the lights to point where the tires point may be adding some conspicuity to their Spyders as well as getting the lighting where you go feature. The Older I get the more the fluorescent lime green reflective helmets and cycle gear appeal to me as well.
And for all those recommended safety tips above, add regularly check your rearview mirrors for the text fool not slowing down behind you (Especially when taking a left turn!) Already riding with the Brake-Free system on the wife's and my helmet. Them crazy cagers are everywhere!

NEVER assume they see you, you might think they made eye contact but they haven't.
Years ago driving 18 Wheelers there were four wheelers who claimed they didn't see you!

:clap: ... to assume - makes an ass out of u and me

I went for a ride recently, just a quick ride to the IGA for a few grocery items and a bottle of Merlo. We live approx. 10 minute's from the grocery store, but like they say... most "accidents" are close to home. I was on a straight section in a 50 mph zone when a person pulled out in of front me from side street in a 50 mph zone... I hit the horn (125 DB) and braked, they panicked and almost went into the ditch to avoid what they probably thought was a semi, which shows they didn't "see me" prior to pulling out. Funny thing is, I have a led light bar and additional front lighting. It makes you wonder, how BIG and BRIGHT do I have to be to avoid "I didn't see you or you came out of nowhere?" It's really a rhetorical question, If anybody on this forum has ever watched crashes or instant Karma on youtube, then you know it really doesn't matter how big/visible you are, too many people are not paying attention and it's up to you (us) to be alert and ready to take action when the time comes.

Be Safe!

Maybe members didn't read the driving vision article I linked to. Clearly explains why we don't "see" what should be obvious. It's like the difference between hearing and listening.

But your honor, he was in my saccade and therefore I couldn't see him. Sorry, guilty as charged! Bailiff, take the defendant into custody.

I ride with the mentality that everyone is out to run me over. This is why I always wear full gear, from my helmet to proper riding boots and a jacket with armor as well as proper gloves - even in the heat of summer. I also choose gear colors that are "loud", such as high-vis yellow on my jackets/ helmet and gloves when I can. I choose bright colors for my motorcycles to help with being noticed. (It doesn't hurt that I also like the color)

I will never own all black gear or an all black motorcycle. I will also add lighting to my bikes and brake flashers to help me be seen.

Just my two cents worth. :cheers:

To me, riding in a crowded metropolis like LA is just asking for trouble.

Thank goodness the area I ride in isn't like that at all .... yet.

I always assume all other vehicles are piloted by this guy.