Turn signals work sometimes; hazards always - maybe a Cluster problem?? Ideas?

[deadboltdon]

So Seriously upset at the moment... It seems as though my cluster is to blame for my intermittent turn signals problem.
2011 RS SE5

Turn signals work sometimes, but not often.. I know it is not the bar switch. I know this because the indicator will not light when they don't come on... But if the switch is on and I smack the console or gauge it usually comes on. (tapping the switch does not fix it)

I think the switch feeds the console then to the lights.

Hazards work all the time.

I have inspected the wiring and plug terminals. There is nothing there that is out of place. (Auto wiring is one of my passions) But cluster in hand I can reproduce "the make it work" by slightly tapping on cluster.
I have used a light compressed air to blow out any dust or dirt. Cover on and off. Didn't make a difference at a all.

I'm off work on illness turned wrongful dismissal since Sept. Sadly, I need to sell the bike to recover some debt. Needs to pass a safety and signals won't work for the mechanic.
I'm feeling a little sick at the thought that the fix to my "turn signal issue" is a new instrument cluster
In Canada that is almost $1000 plus I am sure there is programming the dealer gets to charge me for.
In what world should a or ANY turn signal problem cost that much to fix?
Is there any place to get a used one and can it be programmed?
Wondering if one of our electronic repair shops in town can check for the loose/dirty connection. But I assume they need to be able to power it and the BUDS is so "protected" they would have little knowledge to attack it with... But they have fixed many car amplifiers for me in the past. So who knows?

Any advice/links to cheap parts used or new, or help is very much appreciated.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hey Don. The closest thing I have to a 2011 is a 2013 manual, so here's what I know. You are correct in that the cluster operates the turn signals. Now, the difference between the turn signal switch and the hazard switch is that the turn signal switch sends a CAN Bus protocol signal to the cluster, whereas the hazard switch sends a simple 12v signal. So, the problem is likely to be in the CAN Bus controller in the cluster, or the signal coming to it.

If I have read your write up correctly, you have already removed the cluster from your Spyder, and removed, inspected and cleaned that big harness connector on the back of it, correct? If not, then obviously do that. The CAN Bus signals and the 12v signal from the hazard switch come in on different pins. I don't think you'll need a repair shop. Just unplug the connectors, spray them down good with electrical contact cleaner, check for corrosion, dry them out, and re-install. Inspect the pins closely. They have been know to push out the back of the connector. There's a connector from the left hand handlebar assembly to the main harness, that you'll also want to address, if needed.

Yes, it will require BUDS if you replace your cluster. Whether used or new, the replacement cluster has to be married to the ECM. I don't recall anyone on here using a used cluster, though. BUDS is pretty good at giving you the prompt to do that. Just a couple clicks of the mouse. If you don't do that, then the engine probably will not start. In addition, the indicated milage will be incorrect. Experience on this site has shown that you may not be able to update that on the older machines. Canada must have a form that you can fill out attesting to the actual mileage. They have a form for everything else.

The part number for your cluster - 710002707 - is coming up as a MSRP of about $420.00 US, new. If it is still available. Not sure why you're seeing around $1000.00 C. Unless you were including labor at the dealership.

Sincerely sorry that you are having this stress on top of everything else. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that unplugging and cleaning the harness connectors can solve your issues. Good Luck.

[Bfromla]

BUDS program has nothing to do with dirty/loose connections. The Age of your Spyder is possibly all the problem is. ** do you have a trailer harness?

FYI, I had many headaches trying to find an error with the Right rear blinker failing. While the fronts worked (fenders too) & the trailer lights worked, the rear lights on the bike would not - some diode in the harness was the culprit. Ultimately replaced the entire harness, the diode was oddball and very hard to find.

[DickB]

Try searching "2011 Spyder RS" on eBay. If you find a seller for any part, try contacting them to see if they have a cluster. Salvage operators may not post all the parts that they may have available.

[deadboltdon]

Hey Don.
If I have read your write up correctly, you have already removed the cluster from your Spyder, and removed, inspected and cleaned that big harness connector on the back of it, correct? If not, then obviously do that. The CAN Bus signals and the 12v signal from the hazard switch come in on different pins. I don't think you'll need a repair shop. Just unplug the connectors, spray them down good with electrical contact cleaner, check for corrosion, dry them out, and re-install. Inspect the pins closely. They have been know to push out the back of the connector. There's a connector from the left hand handlebar assembly to the main harness, that you'll also want to address, if needed.


The part number for your cluster - 710002707 - is coming up as a MSRP of about $420.00 US, new. If it is still available. Not sure why you're seeing around $1000.00 C. Unless you were including labor at the dealership.

.

Thanks Snowbelt. Yes I have checked each pin and wire on the cluster harness. I have sprayed and cleaned the plug and connectors. As I say with the cluster in hand, I can wiggle and jiggle the plug or wires and nothing... Small whap on edge of cluster and it seems to work. But this won't stay that way.

There are some "used clusters" for $800+can on ebay, nothing under that. Agreed that the ebay listings may not be complete. By the fact it says Spyder, everyone thinks that used parts are not at much of a discount, I guess.
I have noticed that the "total" hours on bike is not registering any new time. So I am thinking I am right on the cluster. But this is stupidness. What purpose does the turn signal have talking to a Can-bus system anyway?
Other than the fact I need to recover debts. The main reason I am selling is I am tired of the malarkey that is involved with these proprietary systems.
The only dealer in town is too busy with boats and John Deere equipment. So booking it in is a chore on its own. Plus, I bought mine used and the dealer seems to snub me for it... Even though they don't sell many Spyders anymore.
Of course, trying to sell it as is, when there are others that are "turn key" ready is a major disadvantage. Plus, it only shows the potential buyer that these can be plagued with little idiosyncrasies that can cost a fortune to fix.

Temped to hack the switch to make my own 12v flashing circuit and do it old school...... But I know that will bite me in the end, too much going on in the SE5 left controls. Plus, then the "indicator icon the dash" that is also part of safety wouldn't work.
So I guess I am stuck, as I simply can't afford to sink more $$$ than an oil change into it at this time... And even that is hard to do right now.
Thanks to everyone for the help anyways.

[deadboltdon]

Thanks Bfromla, No trailer harness. There are aftermarket rear signals on it but they have been there since I bought it used, and worked for almost 10 years with zero issues.
Yours sounds like a gremlin was licking the diode LOL.. That is evil.
It has to be the most expensive thing LOL that is how my life is going..

[Peter Aawen]

Just a thought Don, possibly applicable, probably not, but who knows until you try.... IIRC (& I may not Recall Correctly at all - I've got an increasingly active 'forgettory' that often overpowers the 'Recall Correctly' part of my memory these days! ) there were some issues with these early GS/RS dash clusters reported back around 2013/15 that all revolved around the 'total hours' reaching a certain number, and I have a vague feeling that a re-set of that number resolved these issues...

Whether it was 'simple to do' or not, that I definitely can't remember But it might be worth your while to search back thru the old threads on the GS & RS models to see what comes up about that 'Total Hours' display & the issues it can cause - it might even help sort your intermittent turn signals problem?! Might not too, but hey... it might be worth a shot?!

[DickB]

What purpose does the turn signal have talking to a Can-bus system anyway?

It simplifies wiring. Look at the number of buttons/switches on the left handlebar. I have two paddle switches, Reverse switch, 6 display switches, and turn signals. All those plus a ground, that's how many "old school" wires the two-wire CAN connection eliminates. It also enables self cancelling. (The horn is "old school" because it is required to function with the key off. High beam is also not on CAN just because.)

[deadboltdon]

Just a thought Don, possibly applicable, probably not, but who knows until you try.... IIRC (& I may not Recall Correctly at all - I've got an increasingly active 'forgettory' that often overpowers the 'Recall Correctly' part of my memory these days! ) there were some issues with these early GS/RS dash clusters reported back around 2013/15 that all revolved around the 'total hours' reaching a certain number, and I have a vague feeling that a re-set of that number resolved these issues...

Whether it was 'simple to do' or not, that I definitely can't remember But it might be worth your while to search back thru the old threads on the GS & RS models to see what comes up about that 'Total Hours' display & the issues it can cause - it might even help sort your intermittent turn signals problem?! Might not too, but hey... it might be worth a shot?!

Thanks Peter that is good to know...
I am so busy fighting with an ex-employer and the Canadian Gov. for EI that I am also become very limited in available aux brain power for anything but the fight... But I will try to look into it over the weekend (when I can wake up and not have to fight the law) LOL
But I will try to look into this. Too bad it is probably a "reset" instead of replace, but as you said it is worth looking into.

[deadboltdon]

It simplifies wiring. Look at the number of buttons/switches on the left handlebar. I have two paddle switches, Reverse switch, 6 display switches, and turn signals. All those plus a ground, that's how many "old school" wires the two-wire CAN connection eliminates. It also enables self cancelling. (The horn is "old school" because it is required to function with the key off. High beam is also not on CAN just because.)

Thanks DickB I suppose it makes some sense. But if it "talks" to the Can-bus one would think it should be something that the BUDS could watch in real time or report (turn signals anyway).

I'm getting to old for this stuff LOL! My last toy to hold on to or sell is a VW trike, that I am working on.
I bought it because I am tired of tech that is not useful and more of a burden to the end user anymore. And a 1600DP VW is as about as basic as it gets LOL!

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks Peter that is good to know...
I am so busy fighting with an ex-employer and the Canadian Gov. for EI that I am also become very limited in available aux brain power for anything but the fight... But I will try to look into it over the weekend (when I can wake up and not have to fight the law) LOL
But I will try to look into this. Too bad it is probably a "reset" instead of replace, but as you said it is worth looking into.

I had a bit of a look last night, and I've found a fair few references back in the depths regarding the Total Hours reaching a certain amount (1000 & something hours, it's apparently all to do with a 16-bit register, or something along those lines?! ) & then stopping registering new time, causing some dash & running issues; but I haven't found anything mentioning the fix... Yet!

But I'll have a bit more of a look later on, if I get the time...

And you say YOU'RE getting too old for this stuff - I thought I wasn't, but apparently not....

[DickB]

But if it "talks" to the Can-bus one would think it should be something that the BUDS could watch in real time or report (turn signals anyway).

You can do exactly that with BUDS.

[deadboltdon]

Well, that is a great start to the Monday...
Called the dealer to confirm the cost of a new cluster. Yep, discontinued!
He said he will make some calls, but is not confident that they would be able to get one... This explains why some/most ebay sales of "pre-owned" units are over-priced ($800+ CAN)

I did look into the total hour issue on here a bit. Mine has stopped counting hours at 1070.9 HRS. Same as most here. As far as I can tell, it is a reset, but there is also mention of KM on ODM stopping, and mine is still counting as far as I know?
I guess I will need to pay the dealer $150-200 for a safety inspection & the $150 to put it on BUDS and tell me that I am for sure screwed, and that my bike is now considered "unsafe" by provincial and federal standards, all due to a part no longer being available...

They need to put the 'best before' date on these in a more visible location than built into the computers.
Basically, they are telling me, "We know you had a choice in vehicles, and you made the wrong one! Thank you for choosing BRP!"
I am Livid and I didn't buy it new or pay a dealer price tag, but Why is my backside so sore? LOL!