Let's get a handle on what it means to ride as a group vs solo

[UtahPete]

The MSF, GWRRA, and others have guidelines for group riding that are designed to ensure the group ride is first and foremost, SAFE. An unsafe ride is not fun, especially if someone crashes. First, a group needs to have a leader at the front and a tail gunner at the rear and have a means to communicate via radio. The group should be no more than 6 to 7 bikes. If the group is larger than about 13 or 14 it needs to be split into two smaller groups. The groups need to stay far enough apart to allow cars to pass and return to the lane in between the groups. The riders in a group need to stay close enough together to restrict cars from passing and inserting themselves between bikes. The riders should stay 1 to 2 seconds apart when in staggered formation and 2 to 3 seconds apart when in single file. Use staggered formation on the straight stretches and single file in the twisties. Staggered doesn't always work with trikes. The riders need to stay close enough so that hand signals from any one rider can be seen and repeated by the rider in front and particularly behind. The group should never try to ride faster than what the slowest rider is comfortable with. This may mean that there needs to be two or more separate groups each traveling at the speed they want with a clear understanding where they will all meet up periodically along the way and at the end.

There is a critical need for group riding training in the Spyder riders community. Group riding MUST NOT be a hap hazard gathering of bikes speeding along the highway. If you get into one get out as soon as you can and ride safely by yourself.

I agree with everything said above. IF riding as a group, then ALL the above guidelines need to be followed meticulously. The problem is, they're not. In my experience, group rides with clubs and on rallies generally adhere to the guidelines, but; a) some guidelines, such as max group size of 7, are routinely ignored and b) the group will set off assuming that all participants are familiar with and committed to following ALL the rules without ensuring they do.

Given this, in my humble opinion, it is better to abandon any attempt to keep riders together on a ride and instead let each person ride their own ride, with periodic planned stops to reconnoiter, have lunch together and ensure everyone is okay. The leader's role then becomes to pick the best route, provide written directions and set a safe, steady pace. The sweep (who should be in contact with the leader periodically) is there to watch out for stragglers, folks who have a technical problem, etc.

 

[UtahPete]

I agree with everything said above. IF riding as a group, then ALL the above guidelines need to be followed meticulously. The problem is, they're not. In my experience, group rides with clubs and on rallies generally adhere to the guidelines, but; a) some guidelines, such as max group size of 7, are routinely ignored and b) the group will set off assuming that all participants are familiar with and committed to following ALL the rules without ensuring they do.

Given this, in my humble opinion, it is better to abandon any attempt to keep riders together on a ride and instead let each person ride their own ride, with periodic planned stops to reconnoiter, have lunch together and ensure everyone is okay. The leader's role then becomes to pick the best route, provide written directions and set a safe, steady pace. The sweep (who should be in contact with the leader periodically) is there to watch out for stragglers, folks who have a technical problem, etc.

I realize there are some strongly held opinions on this topic. I can only speak from my own experience. I've ridden with various clubs over the years, and participated in and 'led' rally-based group rides. By far, for me, the most enjoyable non-solo rides I've had were with just a couple of other bikes or with a large, well-organized riding club (2-wheelers) where our 'group' may be 20 or more bikes, but everyone rode their own ride at their own pace and nobody was bunched up with others.

The only situations where I've felt my safety was being compromised by others have been riding in cohesive groups where there was an expectation of protocols being adhered to by the leader, sweep and participants. As noted elsewhere, it's best to leave a group ride when it doesn't feel safe, which is why I generally try to avoid riding in tight groups.

But, I recognize there are times when group riding is preferable, such as rally rides. For those, there has to be some protocols and riding discipline in place for the good of the group overall, even if it cramps someone's style. My question is, which of the traditional protocols are essential to the safety and enjoyment of the group and which are better abandoned because they are dangerous if not properly followed by every participant?

 

[remark2013]

Following with interest! :bbq:

 

[ARtraveler]

I rode with a group for over 10 years. We followed the statements as noted in the OP.

I was also the "safety" guy for a couple years. Any newbies to the club rode in my group until they were ready to blend with the others. Happy to say we never had any incidents in all the years I rode with the club.

Times change, new management, lax safety regulations. When I saw "regulars" crossing the center line on a regular basis--we decided it was time to quit group riding.

We now ride our own rides and we are in constant communication with each other. IMO--a safer alternative.

There are going to be a lot of opinions. I am also going to sit back and watch since we are no longer doing group rides. :yes:

 

[MisterP]

No thanks. Have had too many problems with group rides. I was run into at SpyderFest before we ever left the parking lot, then was blamed by the rider who ran into me.

 

[Bob Denman]

The only thing worse than group rides with no rules.........




...Are the ones with too many rules. :banghead:

Just find out what the general consensus is among the riders, and go with that! :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

Given this, in my humble opinion, it is better to abandon any attempt to keep riders together on a ride and instead let each person ride their own ride, with periodic planned stops to reconnoiter, have lunch together and ensure everyone is okay. The leader's role then becomes to pick the best route, provide written directions and set a safe, steady pace. The sweep (who should be in contact with the leader periodically) is there to watch out for stragglers, folks who have a technical problem, etc.

Yep, that's exactly the way our group rides, Pete. The "fasties" go first, followed by the "not so fasties" followed by those who "don't care when they get there" and any newbies, and then tail end Charley. The general guidelines of no overtaking in the last group, move into the next group if you feel comfortable at a rest stop, no pressuring the rider in front, all apply and are very well accepted. We have had one or two exceptions, but they are straightened out fairly quickly. I have never seen the issue expressed be Easy Rider of someone being swayed by peer pressure to ride faster than the speed at which they are comfortable (except for a couple in the first group with the HUGE cojones ), and the basic group has been riding together for 20 years, with many "guests". I have rarely heard any bitching at any of the break points, so it is definitely achieving its goals of an enjoyable day(s) out :thumbup:

Pete

 

[Road-Kill]

I have been a member of MC clubs on and off for decades.
All you need is one or two other bikes with friendly faces to have fun.
I'm sick of club fights over BS that has nothing to do with having a blast.
I'm sick of club politics.
I'm sick of being told what to ride.
I'm sick of clubs.

They are only good for finding like-minded friends.

 

[UtahPete]

I have been a member of MC clubs on and off for decades.
All you need is one or two other bikes with friendly faces to have fun.
I'm sick of club fights over BS that has nothing to do with having a blast.
I'm sick of club politics.
I'm sick of being told what to ride.
I'm sick of clubs.

They are only good for finding like-minded friends.

That's my feeling also. But, well-run clubs can also put on really great events, such as the NoCal rally. So, I think there is a place for them. But, I hear you regarding the politics and heated discussions over nothing important. Thanks.

 

[Pirate looks at --]

My Take

As we stated during our rydes at the Nor-Cal Rally we wanted the Jack Rabbits up front, and those that want to smell the roses at the back. We had a lead and a sweep, and another Road Captain in the middle of the group. We advertised our rydes as Level 4, meaning that they were long and technical, and not for beginners. We had lots of short rydes for the beginners. All Road Captains knew where we were going, and where we were stopping along the way. So should we ever split there was always a leader to assist anyone along the way. Interesting though, because we designated the difficulty of the ryde, and because I took it a bit slower than I would on my own, we all stayed together really nicely. We had 12 motorcycles one day and 13 the next. Anymore becomes a nightmare. And communication between lead and sweep is essential to a quality group ryde, especially if you get more than 7 motorcycles as mentioned above. One more key factor is we ALWAYS pre-ryde our route as close to the actual date as possible so we know road conditions are going to be acceptable! Oh, and AccuWeather is a huge help too! I have a great sweep, she keeps me in line.

 

[UtahPete]

As we stated during our rydes at the Nor-Cal Rally we wanted the Jack Rabbits up front, and those that want to smell the roses at the back. We had a lead and a sweep, and another Road Captain in the middle of the group. We advertised our rydes as Level 4, meaning that they were long and technical, and not for beginners. We had lots of short rydes for the beginners. All Road Captains knew where we were going, and where we were stopping along the way. So should we ever split there was always a leader to assist anyone along the way. Interesting though, because we designated the difficulty of the ryde, and because I took it a bit slower than I would on my own, we all stayed together really nicely. We had 12 motorcycles one day and 13 the next. Anymore becomes a nightmare. And communication between lead and sweep is essential to a quality group ryde, especially if you get more than 7 motorcycles as mentioned above. One more key factor is we ALWAYS pre-ryde our route as close to the actual date as possible so we know road conditions are going to be acceptable! Oh, and AccuWeather is a huge help too! I have a great sweep, she keeps me in line.

I was duly impressed and encouraged by the way you conducted group rides. I think your success was also due to the tremendous support you received from club members, who participated in the rides and set good examples for the newbies (like me).

 

[Mazo EMS2]

My only issue with the group rides is folks who think they have to stay 10 ft behind the bike in front of them. There seems to be a great fear of being left behind by many folks. So, of course this leads to extreme accordian affects with the group. I've also been on a lot of rides where the leader won't even go the speed limit, but instead ride slower. This to me adds a bigger safety issue than going a bit over the speed limit. I'm not saying drive 75 mph, but at least go the speed limit. The groups fill in with other traffic and cause all sorts of grief for folks in cars, and that bothers me. I hate for folks in their cars to think "what a bunch of idiot motorcyclists"......but you know that's what they think when we congest the highways by clinging to each other and driving way under the speed limit. I like the group commarodary, but hat the effects we have on traffic. Large groups have really turned me off as far as group riding goes.pps:

 

[Yazz]

That's my feeling also. But, well-run clubs can also put on really great events, such as the NoCal rally. So, I think there is a place for them. But, I hear you regarding the politics and heated discussions over nothing important. Thanks.

There is a difference between clubs that ride together frequently and rally rides...

 

[asp125]

Funny how everyone has opinions and rules about group rides, and then say they hate group rides. You're not alone.

IMO the best group ride is just you and a couple of friends. We've had the best "group" rides where the only rules were no crashes and no tickets. We've had as many as a dozen friends on rides, but break up the "squadron" into "flights" of 3 and 4 riders. There's a fast, medium, and slow group, each with a leader and a route map. Never lost anybody or had any drama.

The worst rides are large groups with strangers who you can't trust on ability or attitude, and too many rules. Been on large charity rides full of sketchy riders and too much pressure to maintain formation. Safety is compromised and fun is sucked out of them.

 

[d.o.spyder-rts]

There is one item that hasn't been mentioned yet and could be important. That is a group briefing. Items that could be covered are safety, timing, planned route, and stops just to name a few. Of course this isn't necessary if riding solo, but you might want to inform someone of your plans in case of an emergency. Dale

 

[UtahPete]

Funny how everyone has opinions and rules about group rides, and then say they hate group rides. You're not alone.

IMO the best group ride is just you and a couple of friends. We've had the best "group" rides where the only rules were no crashes and no tickets. We've had as many as a dozen friends on rides, but break up the "squadron" into "flights" of 3 and 4 riders. There's a fast, medium, and slow group, each with a leader and a route map. Never lost anybody or had any drama.

The worst rides are large groups with strangers who you can't trust on ability or attitude, and too many rules. Been on large charity rides full of sketchy riders and too much pressure to maintain formation. Safety is compromised and fun is sucked out of them.

You make some good points. Whether valid or not, my impression of charity rides is just as you have described.

 

[Pirate looks at --]

Do that before every ryde. Includes route description, stops, road conditions, hand signals and explanation of any safety rules. We let people know that we are going to ryde at the posted speed limit. We do this on all club rydes as well as all Nor-Cal Spyder Rally Rydes!

 

[UtahPete]

There is a difference between clubs that ride together frequently and rally rides...

Yes, knowing your fellow riders helps a lot. How do we overcome that lack of familiarity for the benefit of rally group rides? I think at the least, the group leaders should know each other well, having ridden together before. That seemed to make a difference on the Ebbets Pass ride I took at the NorCal rally.

 

[Peteoz]

You make some good points. Whether valid or not, my impression of charity rides is just as you have described.

Couldn't agree more with asp125. Our riding group has around 6-8 regulars, which occasionally swells to 10-12. No charity rides for this little black duck because of the reasons given. At other times I ride alone, which suits me just fine :thumbup:

Pete

 

[MRH]

Different groups have different styles, and personally I'm a fan of having those choices available to me. As long as the riding style is set out by the leader, and there are opportunities to re-group along the way without leaving others behind, these are individual decisions and each rider can choose to participate in a particular group, or not.