Anyone else had an Oil Leakage Issue like this? - UPDATE

[Little Blue]

Yes, every now and then these aluminum cases will leak because of porosity. Generally speaking about case leaks. I call this the Friday afternoon forget syndrome. "I going to the lake and nothing else matters".

So the final inspection is glossed over.
So there you have the root cause.

 

[Kromm]

The UV dye should help them find exactly where it is coming from. Porous cases are possible, but gasket interface leaks are much more common on modern die cast engines.

When I was talking to the Service Mgr, he showed me a picture they took. It was of the spot of the original fix they did (engine oil galley plug). The casing around it was all discolored and had oil residue on it. They think that's the spot it's seeping through. The Dye should eventually confirm it.

 

[BajaRon]

 

[Little Blue]

When I was talking to the Service Mgr, he showed me a picture they took. It was of the spot of the original fix they did (engine oil galley plug). The casing around it was all discolored and had oil residue on it. They think that's the spot it's seeping through. The Dye should eventually confirm it.

What was the result of the 'dye test'?

 

[Kromm]

They found that it is leaking through the aluminum case. The Service Mgr informed me that BRP has a repair for this. He printed out the procedure and let me read it. It involves taking out the motor and partially disassembling it. Then they "clean" the area (both sides, inside and out, which they have a detailed way of doing); they then apply a "compound" (which is applied in layers) to the area (inside and out). I am not thrilled with this procedure, and my response is that it sounds like a "Band Aid" type of fix. What happens if, in a few years, it starts to leak again, only by then the warranty has worn off? He replied that this will be recorded in my service record. He ordered the repair kit which he will receive on the 24th, then they will start the repair.

 

[Mikey]

This type of fix baffles the heck out of me; they are going to have a shop take the motor out of your machine, break it down, and put some JB weld type of stuff on it, both sides, instead of just putting a new motor in the bike?! If I was running BRP, there would be a short block coming your way. Will that fix work, most likely; will it leak in a different spot afterwards, because there may be another cold shunt somewhere else, who knows? But it is, or will be on file, and if it happens again, then maybe they will give you a new block?! WTH, BRP!! Good luck, I hope you have a good shop!!!

 

[Kromm]

This type of fix baffles the heck out of me; they are going to have a shop take the motor out of your machine, break it down, and put some JB weld type of stuff on it, both sides, instead of just putting a new motor in the bike?! If I was running BRP, there would be a short block coming your way. Will that fix work, most likely; will it leak in a different spot afterwards, because there may be another cold shunt somewhere else, who knows? But it is, or will be on file, and if it happens again, then maybe they will give you a new block?! WTH, BRP!! Good luck, I hope you have a good shop!!!

I agree. Originally when they were still trying to pinpoint the leak, the service Mgr was telling me that a new motor might be one of the options, if it was leaking through the case. Fast forward to now, and BRP is instructing them to do this fix. I will be keeping a very close eye on this after I get it back. As for the shop, they have a platinum rating through BRP, if that means anything.

 

[Little Blue]

My goodness, what will BRP think up next time. I have heard about this type of block repairs on some foreign engines. Not sure about the life of this process/repair.

I have read that aluminum cases are very delicate and hard to repair. I guess we need to wait and see what happens.

Good Luck on Your Spyder.

 

[Mikey]

I agree. Originally when they were still trying to pinpoint the leak, the service Mgr was telling me that a new motor might be one of the options, if it was leaking through the case. Fast forward to now, and BRP is instructing them to do this fix. I will be keeping a very close eye on this after I get it back. As for the shop, they have a platinum rating through BRP, if that means anything.

My goodness, what will BRP think up next time. I have heard about this type of block repairs on some foreign engines. Not sure about the life of this process/repair.

I have read that aluminum cases are very delicate and hard to repair. I guess we need to wait and see what happens.

Good Luck on Your Spyder.

I don't really know about delicate; I have a few blocks out there that I have repaired several ways, mostly welding is my choice of weapons when I do, and as far as I know they are still rolling down the road! I will say it's not for the lighthearted person!!!

 

[Bfromla]

Warranty warranty WARRANTY, if even splitting the case, likely progress to bike replacement/upgrade… express displeasure with down time in PRIME season (Flip side - you'll be saving on gas. )

 

[Will W]

Another thing to consider is the technician doing the work, how proficient he is at removing the engine, then doing a total tear down, and putting it all back together in a way that is equal to factory standards. I have rebuilt a lot of engines in my younger days and I know from experience that the final results is only as good as the work performed by the person doing the job. I have a shop service manual on my Spyder and I have looked at all the components that make up the engine assembly. It has a whole lot of moving parts that require factory specialty tools and it would only take one small screw up by a tech who is not totally trained and up for the job to miss even a small part not done correctly to screw it up, opening up a whole new can of worms. I hope that won't be the case with your Spyder, but if they do go down that road to repair your engine, I would want to know who's doing the work and his back ground training. Good luck with your issue.

 

[Kromm]

My goodness, what will BRP think up next time. I have heard about this type of block repairs on some foreign engines. Not sure about the life of this process/repair.

That was a concern I brought up when they were telling me about this "Fix". My exact reply was what happens if in a year or two it starts to leak again and is no longer under the warranty. That's when he replied about it being on my service record.

Warranty warranty WARRANTY, if even splitting the case, likely progress to bike replacement/upgrade… express displeasure with down time in PRIME season (Flip side - you'll be saving on gas. )

Yes I mentioned this to my wife just the other day. My Spyder has been in the shop for most of the summer. And up to just a couple of weeks ago, we have been having so perfect riding weather. It's been in the upper 80's to mid 90's. It's just now starting to top into triple digits (100+) when it get really uncomfortable to be out.

Another thing to consider is the technician doing the work, how proficient he is at removing the engine, then doing a total tear down, and putting it all back together in a way that is equal to factory standards.

This is another thing I have discussed with the service Mgr. I asked about the difficulty of removing the motor on one of these. I have removed and rebuilt the motor on my KZ900 back when I was much younger, but back then, the motors were not too hard to get out of the frame. He replied that they have experience in removing motors from the Spyder, mine is not the first they have had to take out. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, I looked them up on BRP's web site and the have a platinum rating, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Snoking1127]

If they have been doing the transmission recalls on the earlier generation, which I am sure they have been, they have a lot of experience removing a 1330 motor. BRP has a special tool to hoist the engine.

 

[mecsw500]

I wonder if Rotax, the manufacturer of the motor, would approve the same fix for one of their aero engines. Would the FAA certify that kind of repair with some kind of gunk.

I sincerely doubt it. The very simplest repair is either a long block or short block replacement. The short block is cheaper for materials, the long block cheaper for labor hours. I think a long block or even a new motor would be the most economic repair for BRP.

Sloshing some kind of material on the existing block suggests they have done this before so it is likely to be a known problem. I think I would be insisting upon replacement of the engine. Sticking material on the block is a kludge at best that Rotax wouldn't use on some of their more mission critical engines.

 

[Snoking1127]

GM had alloy wheels a while back that were leaking air in the casting. The solution was to remove the tire and put silicon sealer on the area of the leak.

 

[Kromm]

I just got back from my dealer. They're waiting on a exhaust gasket to reinstall my motor. I talked to the service mgr and the tech who is working on it. I was showed my motor and where the repairs were done. They told me that this repair is direct from Rotax, and it comes with a 10 year warranty. That gives me a little peace of mind. At least if it springs a leak again it will be covered. The following link is to the pictures I took.

Click here to view pictures

 

[VitoNam]

It's ALWAYS good to get an update report on a problem. Your dealer and Rotax has done you good. YAY!.

 

[mecsw500]

I dunno. Frankly, if they wouldn't do this on a Rotax aero engine, I don't think I would want to have them do it on my road going engine.

If the equivalent material inside the crankcase becomes detached and causes the oil pump to get blocked and the engine seizes, that might not have such good consequences whilst riding.

I know the dealer does what BRP tells them to do, but I would not be very happy. The dealer seems to have done a good job in engine removal etc, so I don't blame the dealer.

If the cases were sand cast, I might be happier, but for a die cast production crankcase, I am still unconvinced.

When you come to sell the bike and ask for the service history on the bike, will this repair appear on the service history? If it does, I doubt this would increase the resale value.

 

[Kromm]

I dunno. Frankly, if they wouldn't do this on a Rotax aero engine, I don't think I would want to have them do it on my road going engine.

If the equivalent material inside the crankcase becomes detached and causes the oil pump to get blocked and the engine seizes, that might not have such good consequences whilst riding.

When you come to sell the bike and ask for the service history on the bike, will this repair appear on the service history? If it does, I doubt this would increase the resale value.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would authorize this kind of repair on an aero engine. From the report I read on the repair, a lot of research went into this before they authorized it as the repair.

They didn't split the case and do the inside. The patch is just on the outside. The printout that I read where they did both sides, was done at another area, near the oil filter, where it comes off and they can access it. At the time I asked about that and they stated that the repair is the same, but just on a different area. I was a bit worried about this being applied to the inside for the very same reason. At least if this fails and falls off, the leak will just come back. You can bet that I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

As for what it does for the resale value, who knows. When I purchase a Vehicle, I tend to keep them for a while. Our car we bought in 2014 new (Dodge Charger) and still have it with no intention of replacing it. My other bike is a 2008 Yamaha FJR and I bought it new when I retired as a retirement present to myself, and have no plans on selling it either. I still have my old 76 KZ 900 (even thought it's not running and needs a lot of love!)

 

[Mikey]

Well, the good part, if there is one is that the bad spots not on the bottom of the motor and if it starts to leak again you are not going to be stranded somewhere on the road, it will make a mess but not blow up! As far as resale value if it's not leaking no foul and I would not even mention it, if you are going to trade it, they will know it, because it's going with the vehicle records if they put the repair on file so you can't hide that from BRP. I am assuming that the product is like a JB weld and that is a good product that I would use as a last-ditch effort to fix a bad situation, welding is my choice of weapon in most cases and yours would have been not that bad to fix I believe. I would not lose sleep over your repair, just keep an eye on it and you'll be ok; besides it covered for more years than you'll most likely own the machine! Good to hear your almost back on the road!