1330 Cold riding changes

[ButterSmooth]

It's not really that cold (~40°) but I've noted several changes in the way my Spider runs.

It's kept in a shop that never goes below 44°, so I didn't anticipate any changes in operation. The first thing I noticed was surging when the clutch engages. Not engine surges, but oscillating clutch engagement. Seems like the cause may be cold/thick oil -- I didn't think ~45° would make that much difference.

The first stop sign also produced a surprise. I let the transmission do the downshifting, so the 2 to 1 change was nearly at zero speed. When I applied throttle to leave the stop sign, it popped out of gear into a false neutral. I couldn't shift back to 1st, since it 'thought' it was already in 1st. Can you see the cars lining up behind me? I thought it was going to take a restart (who builds this thing -- Apple?), but I tried reverse and it went there and then into first.

Both of these things go away as soon as the oil warms up a bit. It seems like the HCM doesn't like heavy oil. I'm running 5w 40 Rotella and I thought for a while that 20w40 would probably be ok, considering the 45° bottom temperature. Maybe not so much...

 

[RICZ]

I find my F3L to be balky if I don't allow it to warm to the first temp bar. So I start it then don my gear. By then it's warmed. I'm using Rotella T6 also. I like the thinner 5W viscosity for quicker circulation.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Jeez, that's really starting to sound like a V-twin 998cc running an SE5 with low oil?!? :shocked: You have checked your oil level, haven't you?? :dontknow:

Sorry to start in on the 20 questions, but I don't think we've had ANYONE else report this issue on the Forum since the1330's first came out back in 2014, so it is sorta surprising & possibly unique.... :shocked: . Yours is a 2020 RT, isn't it? How many miles has your Spyder done - surely it can't be enough to have worn anything sufficiently to cause that sorta behaviour, so you'd hafta think that it's gotta be something to do with the oil... Has that been changed? By whom? And are you sure it's running the right oil, a 'wet clutch compatible' motorcycle oil of fhe correct range, & not some workshop's substitute that they charge out as Rotella T6?? What does it do/change if you use the flappy paddles & change down yourself, instead of relying on the 'failsafe' downshift? :dontknow:

 

[ButterSmooth]

Jeez, that's really starting to sound like a V-twin 998cc running an SE5 with low oil?!? :shocked: You have checked your oil level, haven't you?? :dontknow:

Sorry to start in on the 20 questions, but I don't think we've had ANYONE else report this issue on the Forum since the1330's first came out back in 2014, so it is sorta surprising & possibly unique.... :shocked: . Yours is a 2020 RT, isn't it? How many miles has your Spyder done - surely it can't be enough to have worn anything sufficiently to cause that sorta behaviour, so you'd hafta think that it's gotta be something to do with the oil... Has that been changed? By whom? And are you sure it's running the right oil, a 'wet clutch compatible' motorcycle oil of fhe correct range, & not some workshop's substitute that they charge out as Rotella T6?? What does it do/change if you use the flappy paddles & change down yourself, instead of relying on the 'failsafe' downshift? :dontknow:

The oil level is correct. It is a 2020RT with about 4400 miles on the clock, and I changed the oil at ~3000 miles. My first corrective action was to do the downshifting myself, which I usually do anyway, and of course that worked fine. I live at the top of a ridge and the first 4-5 miles leaving home are all gently down-hill. I've always considered it the almost ideal warm-up scenario for a vehicle -- tiny bit of throttle, then rolling with no stress and circulating oil until the coolant temp is up. I like treating cold things gently, since that is the prime wear time.

I was pretty secure about my oil selection, but since experiencing this (and it's not a big deal) I may think about a different oil.

 

[JayBros]

Butter, my Spyder turned 70K just today at the end of a ride and I've never experienced anything like what you report. I have ridden it at as low as 26F starting out and it shifts smoother as it warms up but it is not objectionably rough when cold. I use Amsoil Metric full synthetic 10W-40. With yours being as new as it is I'd leave it with the dealership overnight and tell them to fix the problem.

 

[ButterSmooth]

Butter, my Spyder turned 70K just today at the end of a ride and I've never experienced anything like what you report. I have ridden it at as low as 26F starting out and it shifts smoother as it warms up but it is not objectionably rough when cold. I use Amsoil Metric full synthetic 10W-40. Wit yours being as new as it is I'd leave it with the dealership overnight and tell them to fix the problem.

I always expect (and my experience has shown) that the dealer won't fix anything, but will break something unrelated in the process. I live in fear of dealer mechanics. If there seems to be an issue with the HCM when the weather warms back up, I may pursue it -- since it's only a few months old, I have time.

 

[ARtraveler]

Winter grade fuel is a culprit where its used. The OP is from Oregon.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Butter, my Spyder turned 70K just today at the end of a ride and I've never experienced anything like what you report. I have ridden it at as low as 26F starting out and it shifts smoother as it warms up but it is not objectionably rough when cold. I use Amsoil Metric full synthetic 10W-40. Wit yours being as new as it is I'd leave it with the dealership overnight and tell them to fix the problem.

:agree: ( and with Peter ) .... I have 56,000 + miles and use Full T-6 5w-40 .... this sounds unusual to me .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Jetfixer]

I have over 7000 miles on my 2020 RTL. I did the first oil change using stock Can Am oil. I have noticed one of the symptoms you described; the automatic downshift from 2 to 1 happens at a very low vehicle speed. On mine this happens all the time and does not appear to be affected by ambient temperature. I've been riding to work more than a few days lately at 28°. This is much more noticeable on the 2020 than on my previous 2015 RTL. I have none of the other symptoms you describe. My suggestion is to find someone with BUDS2 and run the clutch engagement checks/calibrations.

 

[AeroPilot]

Buttersmooth - my 15 RT stays in an unheated garage with temps lately in the 20s - I noticed some surging to the clutch engagement yesterday as I pulled out of the gravel drive with low throttle/ about 1500 RPM.... I do think the oil does have some effect, but also second Jetfixers suggestion to have the shop check out the BUDS calibrations. My Idle RPM setting also seemed to oscillate around 800-900 RPM- I probably will get it checked out this winter while the local shop is less busy.

I have fresh Rotella T6 in as I changed it about a month ago, but also have about 26000 miles on the HCM module filter since the last change. Its probably due on the next oil change although the first change was at 40,000 mil Just my 2 cents.

 

[ButterSmooth]

I think the main reason the surging occurs is that backing out of my shop is a slow cautious start to my ride. Once backed out, if I accelerate normally there is no surging; If I accelerate slowly (like backing out) the surging is apparent. It only occurs on that first start with no idling warm up. I think nothing is wrong, it's just HCM software expecting the normal response of warm oil. Closed loop control can be quirky, especially at the boundaries.

The gear pop-out only happened once. It was the coldest morning ride, and the downshift occurred at nearly a complete stop, when I let the bike do the down shifting, which I rarely do.

I was surprised but not worried by either symptom. The first oil report was good, so it appears nothing serious is going on. I could leave it at the shop for a month just to hear the report, "we couldn't replicate the symptoms", but there's no point in that. It was just something to be aware of.

General aviation airports used to park the same type of aircraft in one area, so owners/pilots could share information and characteristics with each other. I think this forum serves that purpose (and others) for the Spyder community and we all benefit from sharing information -- I know I certainly have been schooled by many of you, and appreciate the help.

What a forum!