2016 Spyder F3-T - is this a Battery showing signs of age/decay? Or is it not charging? If so, why?

[delkhouri]

I have a 2016 Can Am Spyder SM6 that I have had for 6 months. It wasn't 100 degrees in Ohio yesterday so I decided to go for a ride. When I went to start it up, it had a slight hesitation but it started.

I rode for about 5 minutes to a gas station and filled up and when I went to start it hesitated more this time but still started. so I rode for about an hour on a nice little loop by my house.

When I got home I decided to turn the Spyder off and try to start it up again. This time it really really hesitated and the screen flashed some lines but it did start again. I let it idle a few minutes and turned it off.

After the Spyder cooled down, I removed the frunk liner and pulled the battery. It is a Duralast Gold ETX18L dates 12/21. It is an acceptable replacement for our Spyders, but has slightly lower capacity at 20 and CCA at 340... the gem YUASA has a capacity of 21 and CCA of 350. I am not sure if this makes that much difference, I tested it via the multi-meter. It read 12.4 which is slightly low (I think it should be 12.6-12.8)

This morning I took it over to a battery store and they tested it for load and it was still 12.4 but he said other than that it is a healthy functioning battery. So I brought it home, charged it for a bit, cleaned all the posts/washers etc and reinstalled it. It started right up three times in a row with no hesitation and no screen lines.

So here are my questions:

Is the battery starting to show signs of age/decay? It probably doesn't have a ton of miles on it just some age.
Why wouldn't the alternator charge it up on my ride last night? It struggled more starting after the ride than before.
Could this be an alternator issue or just a Spyder fussy about a battery?

Also since some of you will ask... The Spyder is stock with no electronic accessories/additions and I do not have it on a maintainer or trickle charger.

Thanks for your help/advice.

 

[BajaRon]

Sounds like you're battery is fine. Get a multimeter. Even a cheap one will do. Start the bike and connect to the + & - terminals on the battery and see what your charging voltage is. Should be around 14, give or take a few points. If it is, then your charging system is fine. We've seen very few, and I mean almost no charging failures on Spyders!

An hour's ride on a low battery isn't going to bring it all the way back.

You might invest in a good maintainer. One that transitions to float charge when the battery is at capacity. The Spyder is hard on batteries.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I'd say Ron's very likely on the money there ^!

Here's a little bit of my thoughts on why this all happened and an explanation of why his suggestion for a good maintainer is a great idea, but I'd only connect it up if you haven't ridden for an hour or so in saaay, the last week or so. Connect it up too often, it can hide a failing battery in those first couple of starts, then leave you stranded with a dead battery once you get a long way from home!! But leave it much longer than that, and you're probably not helping your battery either!

For some reason, your Spyder's battery was a little low when you first started up, hence the hesitation. These Spyder things a VERY hard on batteries and quite demanding on power - a standing charge of JUST 12 volts isn't going to work well for a Spyder, even if it might for a carby motor in a car with little electrical demand, there's lotsa computers and sensors on your Spyder that all put power demands on the battery the moment you turn the ignition to ON, and then when you go and add the starter's cranking load it goes !! So if your battery's fully charged voltage isn't up near 13 volts immediately before you turn the key, you're starting behind the 8 ball - or maybe just not starting at all!!

Like many modern vehicles, Spyders have some electrical needs that hafta be met ALL the time, even when it's just sitting - some call it a 'parasitic draw', but it's not really 'parasitic' so much as an essential thing on many if not most modern vehicles with all their electronics! These things NEED to be kept ticking over, so they draw a little power, and over time, that 'little power draw' thing adds up and depletes your battery. That's usually not a biggie if you ride for an hour or so, maybe more, once every couple of weeks. But if you leave it for much longer/don't ride for at least that long, then your battery's charge is going to be low, and I suspect that was probably why you had that little hesitation on starting the first time - I'm guessing that you hadn't ridden for a week or more beforehand, so your battery was a little low to start out with...

Then you rode for just 5 minutes - but it takes AT LEAST 30 minutes of riding with your alternator cranking out its full charging capacity just to replenish the drain you put on it by starting!! That's even before it starts trying to charge a battery that's already down a bit to start with!! So you just added to the drain on your battery by riding it for a short period and then doing another stop/start cycle, dragging your battery capacity down even lower! The following hour's ride would've helped a little bit, but your alternator had to replenish that low capacity you had to start with, and then replenish the drain of TWO Start cycles, each of which need AT LEAST 30 minutes to replenish, so it's not surprising you had all those 'low voltage/dead battery' signs when you tried to start up again once you got home!! But it's probably a good thing that you were at home when that happenec, and not somewhere out in the boonies when/where you stopped, then tried starting for the third time!!

Still, it sounds as tho your battery, altho it's a tad on the low side of the necessary capacity to start with and not really 'an acceptable replacement' so much as a 'barely capable replacement' for a 350 CCA & 21 A/hr capacity battery, in this instance juuust managed, and luckily, apparently wasn't destroyed by the experience - altho beware, that 12.4 v that your auto store test found under load might indicate 'a healthy functioning battery' for anything OTHER than a Spyder, but they're clearly not aware that for a Spyder, that's borderline too low, cos it's showing that your battery is JUST barely strong enough to work, IF you make sure that you manage to keep on top of the essential drain (that's not really 'parasitic' ) and that you ride often enough and long enough to do more than juuust replenish the starting drains you put on your battery with each start.

So for you, with the 'not quite as capable battery' that you have in your Spyder, I'd suggest that without getting and using maintainer whenever you've left your Spyder standing for more than a week or so, you'll probably need to ride for something more than 30 minutes at least once a week or so, or your battery eventually won't be able to handle the essential drain followed by those starting loads &/or replenish the charge enough to stop it dying completely! And it might be smart to fill your Spyder with gas before you get home from a ride and park it up - you do check the oil after a ride, don't you, so that you know the oil level is good if there's no puddles underneath whenever you want to ride next?? Along the same lines, you might want to do the same with gas, fill it up before you park it up - this'll help reduce condensation forming in the tank & water accumulation in the gas, and it means that if you do park for a week or a bit more, then jump on for a ride and your juuust capable battery handles that as you've described above, then you are good to go for at least an hour or maybe more before/without adding another starting load that's going to deplete your battery even further. Or you could just get a good battery maintainer as Ron suggested, and connect it up for a few days whenever you've parked the Spyder for a week or so; but I'd still suggest taking it off at least the day before a planned ride, so that you stand less chance of being caught out by the maintainer hiding a battery that's no longer charged enough &/or up to more than one or two starts!?!

And next time you get a new battery, that 350 CCA & 21 A/hr capacity should be the MINIMUM that you look for - in the case of our power hungry Spyders, juuust enough battery capacity like you currently have isn't really good enough, not unless you do a lot more to maintain things at their optimum!

Make sense??

 

[TheMariner]

Another simple test you can do with a multimeter is to observe the voltage output while cranking the engine to start. Anything less than sbout 9.5v you don't have enough voltage for the electronics to start up.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Another simple test you can do with a multimeter is to observe the voltage output while cranking the engine to start. Anything less than about 12v you don't have enough voltage for ALL the electronics to start up properly.

Fixed these bits for you, Phil!!

No kidding tho, 9.5-10.5 v might be OK for something less power hungry, but if you do this ^ and your multi-meter drops below 12v when cranking your Spyder over, then your Spyder's battery is either on it's way out, or some of your Spyder's electronics aren't starting up properly, neither being a good thing!

 

[BajaRon]

We have found that you can get by with a little less than 12v cranking. But 9.5v - 10.5v (voltage that will start most engines) and you'll be lucky to get it to fire. Anything less than 11.5v while cranking and you need to look for why.

A multi meter is a very cheap and useful tool. Don't leave home without it!

 

[Cobranut]

I use these on every vehicle and piece of equipment I own.

https://www.northerntool.com/products/batteryminder-battery-charger-trickle-charger-desulfator-12-volt-1-5-amp-model-1500-31654

I probably have 15 or 20 of them. I routinely get 10+ years out of a good quality AGM battery, and usually 8+ on flooded batteries.

 

[Bfromla]

Recommend https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SP1297-Automatic-Battery-Maintainer/dp/B0756PV96N also adding star washers

 

[TheMariner]

Fixed these bits for you, Phil!!

Thanks Peter. I have the wog at the moment & posted from my phone... so it's a miracle any of it made sense!

 

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks Peter. I have the wog at the moment & posted from my phone... so it's a miracle any of it made sense!

Those bug/s seem to be getting around a LOT here in Oz atm, must be something to do with the weather?! COVID, the 'flu, measles, mumps, chicken pox, even tuberculosis & some of the other supposedly eradicated diseases!!

And it also seems that every time I turn my phone on again, there's another bleedin' update, usually one that's undone all the 'accessibility' settings I had to make it easier to use!!

 

[delkhouri]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I do have a multi-meter (a few of them in fact) and tested the battery myself that way. I took it to a local enterprise battery location where they tested the load and in their honesty said the battery was fine and that I didn't need to buy a new one. I will connect the multimeter at start up and idle to check the charging system

I did get to run some errands yesterday riding the Spyder and had to stop and start a few times and it started up every time no problems. So it might have just been a little low. Will look into a maintainer.

Lamonster sells this one. It says it automatically transitions from charge to maintain. Is this the kind you were talking about @BajaRon

Optimate 1 DUO, battery Maintainer / Trickle Charger

#1 Lamonster Garage Accessories built by riders not salesmen. By Lamonster

www.lamonstergarage.com

Also @Peter Aawen
You said “And next time you get a new battery, that 350 CCA & 21 A/hr capacity should be the MINIMUM that you look for”

The most everything listed for the Spyder that I have found is listed at 340 or 350 CCA - most auto parts stores are 340 and the Yuasa and Motobatt are listed at 350. Likewise, most are listed at 20 or 21 a/hr. If those stats should be the MINIMUM, do you have any recommendations for a battery that has more?

 

[Peter Aawen]

... < snip > ...

Also @Peter Aawen
You said “And next time you get a new battery, that 350 CCA & 21 A/hr capacity should be the MINIMUM that you look for”

The most everything listed for the Spyder that I have found is listed at 340 or 350 CCA - most auto parts stores are 340 and the Yuasa and Motobatt are listed at 350. Likewise, most are listed at 20 or 21 a/hr. If those stats should be the MINIMUM, do you have any recommendations for a battery that has more?

Don't ask for 'a battery to suit (or fit) a Spyder', or you're likely to get something that's only just able to do the job.

Instead, measure the battery size and take a pic of the top; or better yet, take the old battery in, and ask for something that is that size/configuration and has equal or better specs to the 350 CCA 21 A/hr minimum - they're out there, but apart from the standard Yuasa or Motobatt type names & similar, most of those we have here in Oz are likely to be retailed under different brand names. But they're probably all actually MADE by the same few factories, and just sold under names that suit the particular location. Here, we've got those big name jobbies, and stuff like Supercharge, Marshall, Century, Interstate, ExpertPower, DieHard, and a whole bunch of other odd names, but YMMV.

You will just need to look at what's good and what's available wherever you are, and don't accept anything less than 350 CCA 21 A/hr.

 

[johnv50]

Last spring I installed a Noco NLP20 lithium Ion in my 2024 F3T and could not be happier. 600 cca, and I use their Genius 1 maintainer.

 

[Redbeard]

Ditto Johnv50.
I have had the Noco NLP20 for 14 months on my 2023 RTl and love it. I ryde enough not to need to use a maintainer, but have it laying on the shop floor should the need arise. The engine spins over so much nicer with the extra cranking power than the stock battery did which came from the factory. Save yourself much grief and purchase a new battery. You don't want to be left stranded somewhere without any assistance, just consider it preventive maintenance.