F3-T air suspension - what's it do & how does it work?

[delkhouri]

So in my never ending quest to find out info about the various spyder models to eventually upgrade to… it seems that one of the perks of the f3-t is the rear air shock. I tried to find posts that explain exactly how it works and better yet videos on how it works and didnt find much. Is it really just essentially an air reservoir that you add air to like a tire depending? And you can add extra if you are a bigger rider or if you have a passenger?

How much weight can the system support? The brochure on the website literally says 439lbs for ever version of the f3 so can the f3-t not carry more than that?

 

[pauly1]

The F3-T has the same rear suspension as the limited, save for the L has an air pump and a level sensor to automatically adjust the air pressure. Essentially it is an air shock: the air is the extra "spring" to carry more payload; no change in damping occurs.

All vehicles have a weight limit predicated on design. Whereas some machines use a mechanical adjustment ring to alter the spring preload, this system can more easily be adjusted via a simple air pressure change.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I dunno pauly, the ACS on our Spyders doesn't really qualify as an 'air shock' on any count!! :lecturef_smilie:

It's more of a 'ride height adjusting' system that uses variable pressure in an air bag that's completely separate to the coil spring/shock assy in order to maintain the ride height under varying loads....

The up-market models get the 'automatic system' which adjusts the air bag pressure to maintain a preset ride height that requires BUDS to vary & which is pretty prone to failures, hence why many by-pass the auto bits completely & manually set their choice of air pressure & therefore ride height; while the 'lesser models' get a manual system effectively does the same thing, ie. allows the operator to adjust the air pressure in the bag & therefore adjust the static ride height themselves! :clap:

Altho with that understood, the coil spring & shock assy's on Spyders with either system are basically juuust capable of holding the rear of the Spyder off the tire by themselves under a relatively light & usually solo operator load, so unless the shock/coil assy has been upgraded, the air bag WILL be necessary & need some air in it if you are carrying any sort of load on your Spyder, or it'll either bottom out intermittently &/or possibly continuously drag its bum on the tire!! :gaah:

So really, the ACS, either manually adjusted or automatically, doesn't increase the load capacity of your Spyder at all - it just allows you to maintain or possibly adjust the loaded ride height while the shock/coil assy does all the real load carrying and suspension tasks! And if you get a Spyder with the 'automatic' ACS, not only do you get no real choice in that ride height, be prepared for compressor failures &/or leaks! These failures/leaks might not happen over-night or even immediately, but give it a while, they WILL happen! :banghead: . And when they do, you can chase around throwing good money after bad trying to fix it for the long term rather than band-aid it for a short while, but eventually, you'll most likely give up on that & do what so many others have done, which is convert the system to a single air hose going directly from the schraeder valve under the seat into the top of the air bag so the operator can then manually top up &/or adjust the air bag pressure on the few occasions it's really required! :thumbup:

I doubt that there's too many owners who've had the auto system for a fair while, saaay, over 50 odd thousand miles who'd actually consider the 'automatic' bit of their 'as bought' ACS as a valuable selling point... I could be wrong about that, but if that's the case right now, I still reckon it'll just be a matter of time/miles!

 

[Jetfixer]

Something else to think about is that the correct ride height has a small effect on your headlight aiming down the road.

 

[blacklightning]

Under the seat on the F3T there is also a recommended pressure to fill the air bladder for varying amounts of load (weights). The bag on my 2016 F3T would leak down slowly, but over the past 12 months it would leak down a lot quicker. I had it replaced back in December and didn't realize how much better the bike rode and drove with a correct operating suspension.
I have that same system on my 2016 F3 Limited.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Air Bag .... what it does .... My understanding is different than most here ...... As an example: I had a Toyt pk-up, when I decided to carry my Spyders on /in it ( I removed the OEM bed and built a Box which bolted to a Flat Bed I built ) .... all this weight would have caused a problem .... So I put Air Bags on the Springs .... At max pressure they raised the Floor 3 inches ... and increased the carrying capacity by 1000 lbs. ( up from 1250 lbs. ). Now I could have just Raised the floor BY INCREASING THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE FLOOR AND THE SPRINGS , but this wouldn't have allowed ANY weight increase..... So IMHO the Air Bag and the SPRING work in tandem, Remove one and the System won't work. not only does the Air Bag raise the height of the seat it also supports any extra Weight. .... I don't often ride with a passenger, but I keep the Bag at 45 lbs. - otherwise the suspension will Bottom on bumps or potholes ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[delkhouri]

The reason i ask the question is that i have a ryker rally and the vehicle load is 438lbs… exactly 1lb less than any f3 model. My wife and i combined are right around that max load limit… probably a little over (entirely my fault)… and even when i have adjusted the pre-load on the rear shock we still bottom out from time to time. I could just get a beefier rear shock but I honestly have grown in love for longer rides and want to get into so multi-day trips and well i think the spyder is just a better tool for the job (more power, smoother, not a cvt, more comfortable).

I was hoping by getting an f3-t rather than just an f3 it would be better for two up and it probably is…. I just dont know why the load is the same on the regular f3 as the f3-t when the f3-t has the added air suspension

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The reason i ask the question is that i have a ryker rally and the vehicle load is 438lbs… exactly 1lb less than any f3 model. My wife and i combined are right around that max load limit… probably a little over (entirely my fault)… and even when i have adjusted the pre-load on the rear shock we still bottom out from time to time. I could just get a beefier rear shock but I honestly have grown in love for longer rides and want to get into so multi-day trips and well i think the spyder is just a better tool for the job (more power, smoother, not a cvt, more comfortable).

I was hoping by getting an f3-t rather than just an f3 it would be better for two up and it probably is…. I just dont know why the load is the same on the regular f3 as the f3-t when the f3-t has the added air suspension

If you want a higher weight load capacity .... get a Spring with a higher capacity ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Knizar]

If you want a higher weight load capacity .... get a Spring with a higher capacity ..... Mike :thumbup:

:agree: I have to agree with Mike on this one; increase spring capacity or a different rear shock, and also replace the spools with a higher weight capacity tire. BRP probably restricts their weight limit because of the poor grade of tires more so than the suspension factor. JMHO...:thumbup:...Bill

 

[delkhouri]

So then whats the point of the air shock if it doesn’t increase load capacity?

 

[Peter Aawen]

So then whats the point of the air shock if it doesn’t increase load capacity?

It maintains the specified ride height & stops the Spyder dragging it's bum along the road when you carry a pillion/load it up!

Btw, the Spyder F3-T weighs more itself (without any rider, pillion, or gear on board) so technically, the weight you can carry/put ON it is proportionally somewhat less than it is for the base model, cos they don't have as much load capacity taken up by needing to carry the added weight of all the extra saddlebags, tupperware, & the ACS compressor etc!

So if you want the maximum load carrying ability, thenyou really want the lower spec model! :lecturef_smilie:AND THEN you'll STILL need to fit a spring with a higher capacity if you want to increase it's load capacity :thumbup: besides changing the OE Spec Kendas to real tires with better load ratings

 

[pauly1]

It maintains the specified ride height & stops the Spyder dragging it's bum along the road when you carry a pillion/load it up!

Btw, the Spyder F3-T weighs more itself (without any rider, pillion, or gear on board) so technically, the weight you can carry/put ON it is proportionally somewhat less than it is for the base model, cos they don't have as much load capacity taken up by needing to carry the added weight of all the extra saddlebags, tupperware, & the ACS compressor etc!

So if you want the maximum load carrying ability, thenyou really want the lower spec model! :lecturef_smilie:AND THEN you'll STILL need to fit a spring with a higher capacity if you want to increase it's load capacity :thumbup: besides changing the OE Spec Kendas to real tires with better load ratings

Pete is correct on this one, it is an external air bag, not an air shock. Although, the function is to increase load carrying capacity of said vehicle. Whether our Spyders or a pickup, both of which have been mentioned in this thread.

Ride level affects: steering geometry (due to the bump-steer BRP design) and headlight aim.

Related but different: I pull a toyhauler 5th wheel with my pickup that was prone to bottoming out the rear suspension on bumps. I added overload (hard springs) but still had some issue. The ride was level so adding more would have lifted the backend further.

I then added Rancho adjustable damping shocks, resulting in a vast improvement in the overall ride and control of the bottoming out (more compression cycle damping). One could have added additional overload capacity in the suspension but the issue was control of damping. That was less bone jarring that adding spring (thinking back on my farming days and old trucks dad had). Plus I can adjust for when the pickup is empty and get some of the ride comfort back.

So, if your ride issue is sometimes bottoming out with two-up, I would recommend a shock with adjustable damping, keeping the air bag for adjusting for load. Be mindful that the accessibility to that area on a "T" or "L" model is limited, so the access to damping control would need to be remote.

 

[Piratezz]

imho, when ryding two-up, you would prefer to have a preload adjuster, and a higher rated spring, you would be better of, airbags (as many said before), would leak after time, and would set you back more moneywise..

 

[delkhouri]

So what you all are saying for my particular needs… you would recommend me getting a base f3 or f3s and then adding aftermarket saddlebags AND most importantly a aftermarket rear shock set up for weight and riding style

 

[pauly1]

So in my never ending quest to find out info about the various spyder models to eventually upgrade to… it seems that one of the perks of the f3-t is the rear air shock. I tried to find posts that explain exactly how it works and better yet videos on how it works and didnt find much. Is it really just essentially an air reservoir that you add air to like a tire depending? And you can add extra if you are a bigger rider or if you have a passenger?

How much weight can the system support? The brochure on the website literally says 439lbs for ever version of the f3 so can the f3-t not carry more than that?

You asked how the F3-T air suspension worked: that was answered over a couple of responses. You will need to make the choice between a base F3, "S", "T" or "L" model, based on other options that are included on them. I've gone the route of buying an F3-S and adding stuff to it, of which I am happy with, but that can get to be expensive quickly if you are hiring the modifications completed.

I don't believe you stated how much weight capacity you needed, rather only spec limit. The base and "S" models do allow access to shock area but that is lost if you add rear saddlebags (unless they are removable). If you go with a F3-T or L you'll have the air bag for some control over the load capacity; the air bag serving as the bigger, adjustable "spring". If you then replace the coil-over rear shock, which is the primary load capacity, get one with a remote adjustment for the damping control. The "T" is manual adjustment of air pressure, while the "S" has an automatic pressure control based on a height leveling measurement.