Going to a car tire

[BajaRon]

Out of curiosity, if anyone gets the opportunity, could they weigh the stock tyre vs a car tyre? particularly the front ones. If bike is 2 ply and car 4 ply could the reason be to reduce unsprung weight and to allow more flex to alleviate strain off the steering components? (At the expense of longevity).

cheers
nito

When I switched to the Toyo Proxes TR1 rear tire (very nice tire and so far, my favorite) I weighed both the worn out OEM tire and the new Toyo. I was surprised to find the Toyo to be lighter! I don't remember the exact weights but I think it was lighter by about 2 pounds. This really surprised me. But thinking about it. I came to these possible reasons.

The OEM tire is the only one of its kind. No competition, no other choice. Take it or leave it.

The Toyo has a lot of competition as there were many other tire makers producing the same size and similar design tire. How much research went into the OEM tire? Who knows, but chances are that a lot of research went into the Toyo. To compete, Toyo had to make a better tire at a competitive price. The OEM manufacturer has no such pressure.

How many of these tires did Toyo sell? Probably millions! High volume lowers per unit price and also justifies making a higher quality product.

How many OEM tires are being sold? In comparison to just this one Toyo brand and model, probably a drop in the bucket. Remember, a car will get 4 of these. The Spyder just 1.

Just because a tire has 4 plies instead of 2 does not necessarily mean it will be heavier. The number of plies is meant to give more rigidity and a higher weight carrying capacity. Obviously, our Spyders do not need more plies to carry more weight. But the additional plies also make for a flatter tread area giving you more meat on the road surface and a more uniform wear pattern.

The wider the tire, the more you need additional strength across the tread area. Otherwise, your tire will balloon in the middle as speed increases giving you the classic, Worn Out in the Middle wear pattern.

It appears that better technology and manufacturing processes can give you both increased rigidity and less weight. That's my theory, what's yours?

 

[oldgoat]

I can almost understand why on a car this is true since ideally their handling is designd to be neutral in that both ends lose traction equally, and are therefore neutral in handling. Cars are regularly driven in a controlled skid. On a motorcycle there is no advantage since if either side loses traction you have a high likeklyhood of going down. I would think that any setup that gives maximum traction to either end is better than matching inferior traction front and rear.

I understand the point you are making with regard to getting the best traction at both ends of the motorcycle.

I'm just not in a position to give a definitive argument one way or another.

 

[oldgoat]

When I switched to the Toyo Proxes TR1 rear tire (very nice tire and so far, my favorite) I weighed both the worn out OEM tire and the new Toyo. I was surprised to find the Toyo to be lighter! I don't remember the exact weights but I think it was lighter by about 2 pounds. This really surprised me. But thinking about it. I came to these possible reasons.

The OEM tire is the only one of its kind. No competition, no other choice. Take it or leave it.

The Toyo has a lot of competition as there were many other tire makers producing the same size and similar design tire. How much research went into the OEM tire? Who knows, but chances are that a lot of research went into the Toyo. To compete, Toyo had to make a better tire at a competitive price. The OEM manufacturer has no such pressure.

How many of these tires did Toyo sell? Probably millions! High volume lowers per unit price and also justifies making a higher quality product.

How many OEM tires are being sold? In comparison to just this one Toyo brand and model, probably a drop in the bucket. Remember, a car will get 4 of these. The Spyder just 1.

Just because a tire has 4 plies instead of 2 does not necessarily mean it will be heavier. The number of plies is meant to give more rigidity and a higher weight carrying capacity. Obviously, our Spyders do not need more plies to carry more weight. But the additional plies also make for a flatter tread area giving you more meat on the road surface and a more uniform wear pattern.

The wider the tire, the more you need additional strength across the tread area. Otherwise, your tire will balloon in the middle as speed increases giving you the classic, Worn Out in the Middle wear pattern.

It appears that better technology and manufacturing processes can give you both increased rigidity and less weight. That's my theory, what's yours?

Ron
Should I manage to find one, what size did you get?

 

[SpongeBob]

I just noticed this ad from Vee Rubber in Rider magazine ...

http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=2763&cur-cat=motorcycle

They're calling their Spyder tire the Arachnid.

 

[BajaRon]

Ron
Should I manage to find one, what size did you get?

Stock size, 225-50-15

It would be nice to find a slightly larger rear tire to get closer on actual speed. But as far as I know they didn't make this in a 225-55-15.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I just noticed this ad from Vee Rubber in Rider magazine ...

http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=2763&cur-cat=motorcycle

They're calling their Spyder tire the Arachnid.

tires are made in thailand, i have been there. fun country great place to ride a spyder but i don't know if i want to trust
my ride on their tires
al

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Stock size, 225-50-15

It would be nice to find a slightly larger rear tire to get closer on actual speed. But as far as I know they didn't make this in a 225-55-15.

225x55R15 is a discontinued size that was made for early to mid 90's bmw 3. they used to make it in a 'v' rating which would
be great for our bikes
al

 

[BajaRon]

225x55R15 is a discontinued size that was made for early to mid 90's bmw 3. they used to make it in a 'v' rating which would
be great for our bikes
al

Many of the 225/50/15 tires that work well on our Spyder are also being discontinued. Like the Toyo Proxes TR1.

 

[dndfindley]

Following this thread with great interest. 7200km(4500miles) and I'm down to the wear bars. That's just not acceptable.

Acceptable or not that is about the norm for OEM. I have 8500 miles on mine and it's down to the wear bars but I think I can make it until I have the 9300 mile service done and then I'll have the dealer mount another Kenda OEM while it's in for routine service. Car tires have been shown to last a lot longer but BRP put the Kenda's on there for a reason and I'm sticking with it.

 

[dndfindley]

I just noticed this ad from Vee Rubber in Rider magazine ...

http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=2763&cur-cat=motorcycle

They're calling their Spyder tire the Arachnid.

Thailand? Seriously?

 

[jcthorne]

Car tires have been shown to last a lot longer but BRP put the Kenda's on there for a reason and I'm sticking with it.

Profit

 

[Chupaca]

As I see it..!!

Couple of things I noticed from ryders I have met. Some don't know which is the wear bar and which is the rain blocks. Shoddy dealers have convinced them they needed new tires before they really did. I ryde hard and just now changed my oem Kenda at 20,000 miles. I run a bit low on the air pressure so to get full contact at speeds and even wear. The other factor is the actual road construction and roads traveled, the weather and tire temps reached while ryding. There is the model roadster and the ryder. The 14's I feel have the problem that many are upgrading and are used to cranking down to get to the torque range at higher rpms. The increased horse power and the low end torque is wearing the tires out quicker and they feel they got a bad batch as well. I don't throw the milk out because the sell by date has passed, I do when it comes out like cottage cheese...:roflblack: Jmo

 

[BajaRon]

Acceptable or not that is about the norm for OEM. I have 8500 miles on mine and it's down to the wear bars but I think I can make it until I have the 9300 mile service done and then I'll have the dealer mount another Kenda OEM while it's in for routine service. Car tires have been shown to last a lot longer but BRP put the Kenda's on there for a reason and I'm sticking with it.

I understand those who have this approach.

BRP certainly has a reason for every component installed (or not installed). But to assume that the reason is 'Best Possible Part or Component for the job' is going to be off the mark. In general, the truth is that BRP (or any manufacturer) is going to use the materials which at least meet the minimum requirements needed to achieve the established goal for the least amount of cost.

In other words, you're looking at a weighted matrix which determines the quality of each component. Highest quality and best possible performance are seldom of greatest concern. And for good reason. You might be looking at a $250,000.00 machine if BRP approached the Spyder in this way. Plus the fact that most would not necessarily need or appreciate 'The Very Best' of everything.

Every vehicle is a compromise, including our Spyder. Some components are worth upgrading, some are not. This depends as much on the individuals needs/wants as it does in the quality of the original component.

 

[oldgoat]

Couple of things I noticed from ryders I have met. Some don't know which is the wear bar and which is the rain blocks. Shoddy dealers have convinced them they needed new tires before they really did. I ryde hard and just now changed my oem Kenda at 20,000 miles. I run a bit low on the air pressure so to get full contact at speeds and even wear. The other factor is the actual road construction and roads traveled, the weather and tire temps reached while ryding. There is the model roadster and the ryder. The 14's I feel have the problem that many are upgrading and are used to cranking down to get to the torque range at higher rpms. The increased horse power and the low end torque is wearing the tires out quicker and they feel they got a bad batch as well. I don't throw the milk out because the sell by date has passed, I do when it comes out like cottage cheese...:roflblack: Jmo

I've been thinking my rear tire was at the wear bars, but after your comments, maybe I have been looking at the rain blocks

Will have to have another more careful look. Thanks

 

[BajaRon]

Couple of things I noticed from ryders I have met. Some don't know which is the wear bar and which is the rain blocks. Shoddy dealers have convinced them they needed new tires before they really did. I ryde hard and just now changed my oem Kenda at 20,000 miles. I run a bit low on the air pressure so to get full contact at speeds and even wear. The other factor is the actual road construction and roads traveled, the weather and tire temps reached while ryding. There is the model roadster and the ryder. The 14's I feel have the problem that many are upgrading and are used to cranking down to get to the torque range at higher rpms. The increased horse power and the low end torque is wearing the tires out quicker and they feel they got a bad batch as well. I don't throw the milk out because the sell by date has passed, I do when it comes out like cottage cheese...:roflblack: Jmo

Very True! And some get more out of a tire than others....

 

[Highwayman2013]

Tires

Stock size, 225-50-15

It would be nice to find a slightly larger rear tire to get closer on actual speed. But as far as I know they didn't make this in a 225-55-15.

I used a 215/60/15 and it puts the speedo very close.

 

[BajaRon]

I used a 215/60/15 and it puts the speedo very close.

One of the good tire size choices. You trade some tread width for a more accurate speedo/odometer.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I used a 215/60/15 and it puts the speedo very close.

As a tire guy i can tell you 215x60R15 is a performance downgrade that would be noticeable at highway speeds & exit ramps.

 

[SpongeBob]

Thailand? Seriously?

Why not ? The OEM Kenda is made in China.

 

[Chupaca]

The mark..!!

I've been thinking my rear tire was at the wear bars, but after your comments, maybe I have been looking at the rain blocks

Will have to have another more careful look. Thanks

If you look hard turning a whole revolution you will find a small triangle on the side of the tire. Across from that is the wear limit see picture below...
hope you can see it...:thumbup: