Left Side of Kumho Tire Worn Past Wear Limit Indicators

[Reginald]

Ann's 2013 Can Am ST Limited.

The tire tread on the left side (belt side) of the tire was worn past the wear limits, while the middle and right side of tire had half the tread left. I thought the tire was out of alignment. The shop said it wasn't or the belt would come off. So I had the bike aligned. Three months fast forward with new tire and had the Can AM in the shop for oil change and sticky brake repair and the shop tells me the right front bushings were toast. I'm thinking this was the cause of the wear on the tire. Also thinking I shouldn't trust shop anymore; should have looked when I had it in for the tire, clearly unsafe.

Do you think the failed bushings are the proximate cause for the tire wear? Do I need to look for another possible cause?

I'd appreciate knowledgeable opinions. Wife's safety means a lot to me. Thanks

 

[2dogs]

First I'd get a second opinon

The BRP website has a dealer drop down list of all current BRP dealers. Make sure, which ever dealer you choose, that they have a certified tech on hand who works on spyders. Not all BRP dealers sell and service spyders. Here's a link to that list, good luck.

http://www.brp.com/BRPDEALERLOCATOR/Search.aspx?culture=en-US :thumbup:

 

[Reginald]

Oops wrote bushings but it was the ball joint. The ball joint was repaired. Not sure the cause of the rear tire wear is fixed. I'd like to know what can make a rear tire wear on left side (belt side). There's no camber or toe to cause it, like the front tires. Things I believe could cause this are chassis alignment and rear wheel alignment on swing arm. Or, could a failed ball joint on right suspension arm do it? Is there anything else I should know. Am I the only one whose rear tire wore on belt side?

 

[BajaRon]

There are more experienced people here in this regard than myself. But I don't think a bad front ball joint is going to give you severe rear tire wear on one side. I wonder how your rear wheel bearings are doing. It could be your engine is out of alignment which would require you to have the rear wheel out of alignment to keep the belt on the pulley.

Interesting to say the least. Maybe someone will chime in with a 'Been There - Done That' solution.

 

[jeff92872]

Belt alignment

Belt alignment can be off without throwing the belt off

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: The rear wheel wasn't lined-up properly, and I think that Ron has hit on a VERY likely cause for it...

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

ALIGNMENT AND TIRE WEAR

IMHO like Ron said a front ball joint causing the tire wear.....I have serious doubts this is possible.....I agree with you about the REAR tire being better supported and not effected by camber or castor.......There is something not aligned and I think it's serious.......If were you I would seek out an ALIGNMENT specialist such as SQUAREDAWAY they do Lazer and use the ROLO/OUTLAW system .......I think they could tell you if something was out of spec......I don't trust most Dealers .......Mike :bbq:

 

[BajaRon]

I don't trust most Dealers .......Mike :bbq:

Ah! Mike! You're such a cynic! The fact that you're right has nothing to do with it! :roflblack:

 

[Reginald]

OK, found this http://www.spydercomfort.com/index.html (ROLO LLC)

It lists dealers with the True laser Track system.

Is this the system you're talking about that would troubleshoot the alignment of the rear wheel? Obviously, I'm going to have to trust the "dealer" to do it. :shocked:

According to the listing, the dealer I've been using has acquired one. They didn't have it when I had the ball joint replaced, I asked if they had a laser alignment system at that time. Not sure I want to use them. Not sure I want the next option at over 80 miles away. :dontknow:

How can an engine get out of alignment without frame damage or broken mounts? Aren't those fixed mounts with rubber. Just checked out the service manual and there's no way I can see the engine can be adjusted or vibrated or loosened out of alignment (pp 24-27). However, I could be wrong; lack of experience working on this Spyder.

 

[The Governor]

Oops wrote bushings but it was the ball joint. The ball joint was repaired. Not sure the cause of the rear tire wear is fixed. I'd like to know what can make a rear tire wear on left side (belt side). There's no camber or toe to cause it, like the front tires. Things I believe could cause this are chassis alignment and rear wheel alignment on swing arm. Or, could a failed ball joint on right suspension arm do it? Is there anything else I should know. Am I the only one whose rear tire wore on belt side?

Just curious... How many miles on the bike? Are you the original owner? Possible the bike was wrecked or took a hard hit to a curb prior? I also agree with BajaRon.

I didn't need a ball joint on my F250 diesel until 185,xxx miles....

 

[Reginald]

Just curious... How many miles on the bike? Are you the original owner? Possible the bike was wrecked or took a hard hit to a curb prior? I also agree with BajaRon.

I didn't need a ball joint on my F250 diesel until 185,xxx miles....

Wife, Ann, owns it. I own a ST1300. Wife bought it new FEB 2012. No wrecks, no curbs, did bounce on some railroad tracks (can't see that wreaking the frame though). > 17,000 miles. But, the Can Am burned out a battery, regulator, and Stator in Nevada HWY 50 middle of no where 2014. Rear brake light sticks and dealer has yet to get that fixed and cruise won't set because of it. Lost a ball joint on a light weight machine. I'm concerned because I didn't think the ball joint would fix the tire wear problem either, but didn't know.

I still don't see how that engine can move in the frame. People are agreeing with the idea, but I'd like to know how.

Truthfully, I'm a hairs breath from selling it and buying her Mazda Miata. If it can't make a summer trip to California and the Olympic Peninsula, it's going to be sold. The wife is afraid it's going to break on her and leave on the road again, so am I.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TIRE WEAR

OK You've owned since new ....no damage.......second (?) rear tire ....how did the other do ( wear wise ??? ).....Do you know if the rear bearings were checked ???.............The Kumho is IMHO twice as good a tire as a Kenda....How many miles on the Kumho when you noticed the ODD tire wear.............Just trying to narrow down the possibilities........and if your dealer just got the LAZER they may not be experts in how to use it yet !!!.........Mike :bbq:

 

[Reginald]

OK You've owned since new ....no damage.......second (?) rear tire ....how did the other do ( wear wise ??? ).....Do you know if the rear bearings were checked ???.............The Kumho is IMHO twice as good a tire as a Kenda....How many miles on the Kumho when you noticed the ODD tire wear.............Just trying to narrow down the possibilities........and if your dealer just got the LAZER they may not be experts in how to use it yet !!!.........Mike :bbq:

Ann had 2 Kenda's prior to the Kumho. She got just over 4,000 miles each and the middle wore out on each, as described in other posts on the forum. We were in Eureka, California (2014) when I noticed the belt side wear on the Kumho, tire had slightly more than 4,000 miles. We were returning via HWY 50 Nevada when the electrical system fried. Had it trailered to High Adventure Power Sports & Marine, Salt Lake City and a level 5 service tech. They fixed the electrical problem and I had them replace the tire with a Kenda (all they had in stock). At that point the Kumho would not get us home, the tread on the far belt side was totally gone, at slightly over 5,000 miles, while the middle and right side were very healthy. When we got home Ann had rotator cuff surgery and didn't ride for eight months; I did for short rides though. The tire that's on the ST now is the Kenda we got in Salt Lake City. It has over 2,000 miles on it and I don't see the left side wear. Maybe it's fixed and maybe it's not.

Ann and I really want to make this west coast trip this summer and need a long distance tire like the Kumho promises to be. We'd like some confidence that Ann won't get a repeat tire wear pattern. If we know the signs and causes we can avoid the pit falls. The Salt Lake City shop didn't have an explanation for the wear. The shop here said they thought it was the alignment, so I had them do an alignment and they found the bad ball joint. They said the alignment wasn't off that much and couldn't explain why a tire would wear that way. So, I'm asking the question on this forum and am grateful for the thoughts.

I am going to take the Tupperware off and check out those front rubber motor mounts, only thing I can think of that would allow the engine to shift.

Ann has learned her lesson on batteries; see the battery light, stop, and replace battery -- no big problem. Now we just need to learn our lesson on rear tire wear patterns so we know what to have fixed.

 

[Peter Aawen]

It really doesn't take a heap of 'mis-alignment' to produce wear like you've reported, fractions of mm mis-alignment can do it - and since the front end mis-alignment that produces this sort of rear tire wear is often 'plus Xmm' of toe on one side up front teamed with 'minus Xmm' of toe on the other side up front (X being identical or close to identical in each case) the mis-alignment on each side often cancels the other side out & the vehicle 'feels' like it's driving OK, but in reality it's crabbing down the road cos the front wheels are skewed to one side!!! Especially on a 'short wheel-based with single rear drive tire like the Spyder, so any mis-alignment is concentrated in the single & (hopefully) centred rear drive wheel, cos all that means you get clearly visible & extreme wear on one side of the rear tire if the front is mis-aligned like this!!

That said, I'd say with a fair degree of certainty that if the current tire has been on for 2,000 miles & hasn't yet measurably worn the same way as the Kumho did (being the last tire on it before this one) then whatever (little or otherwise) wheel alignment the dealer did do was sufficient to correct the problem alignment that caused the bad wear in the first place - but I'd still suggest you get a known 'good' alignment practitioner (Squared Away?) to do a 'proper' wheel alignment on it when you get the new tire/s fitted!! If you can get access to an accurate 'tread depth measuring tool' & a user who knows how to use it properly, you could confirm that the tire is wearing evenly - or maybe a skilled tire technician with a no-touch thermometer could check for hotter strips of tread across the face of the tread for you. The hotter strips will wear quicker, & if you have any at all, they should be in the middle of the tread & only very slightly hotter than the rest at that!!

Who did the initial delivery on the Spyder in the first place?? Did they do a proper wheel alignment matching the drive wheel thrust with the front wheel alignment or did they do the dodgy 'align to the frame' thing that BRP once suggested to use, which meant the front wheels may or may not end up having some or any relationship to the way the rear wheel was driving.... and which btw, was perfectly capable of producing one sided wear on the rear tire!! Did whoever aligned the wheels after fitting the Kumho do that or use the ROLO/laser alignment system? The ROLO/laser alignment system aligns the wheels with the steering, each other, AND the drive thrust all taken into account so that if it's been done properly, it simply won't create that sort of wear on your drive tire!!

Over to you, Good Luck! :thumbup:

 

[Reginald]

If you can get access to an accurate 'tread depth measuring tool' & a user who knows how to use it properly, you could confirm that the tire is wearing evenly - or maybe a skilled tire technician with a no-touch thermometer could check for hotter strips of tread across the face of the tread for you. The hotter strips will wear quicker, & if you have any at all, they should be in the middle of the tread & only very slightly hotter than the rest at that!!

Looking at a Milton Tread Depth Gauge on Amazon now. I already own a LazerGrip 800 non-Contact Infrared Thermometer. I use it on the ST1300 brake rotors to be sure I got the job done right and test any automotive bearing. PS, it'd help with Spyder rotors following brake flushes and pad replacement. A very useful tool. We'll put another 1,000 miles on the rear tire and measure. The Tread Depth Gauge is small and can be used on long trips to check wear patterns before it's too late to save the tire. Great info here! :2thumbs:

Who did the initial delivery on the Spyder in the first place?? Did they do a proper wheel alignment matching the drive wheel thrust with the front wheel alignment or did they do the dodgy 'align to the frame' thing that BRP once suggested to use, which meant the front wheels may or may not end up having some or any relationship to the way the rear wheel was driving.... and which btw, was perfectly capable of producing one sided wear on the rear tire!! Did whoever aligned the wheels after fitting the Kumho do that or use the ROLO/laser alignment system? The ROLO/laser alignment system aligns the wheels with the steering, each other, AND the drive thrust all taken into account so that if it's been done properly, it simply won't create that sort of wear on your drive tire!!

I couldn't tell you how the initial alignment was done and since the shop has had turnover I bet they couldn't either. But, I would bet money that's what they did since it's the method in the service manual. The shop didn't have the ROLO/laser until sometime this winter. They didn't have it last September. So no, they didn't laser align the Kumho.

Over to you, Good Luck! :thumbup:

I'll give the shop one more try with the laser following a Kumho tire change, really don't want to travel 82 miles, drop off, and repeat for pickup. You've given me info that'll certainly increase the likelihood of good luck. Thanks.

 

[jcthorne]

Worn suspension components in the front suspension, like a ball joint or skewed alignment can indeed cause uneven wear on the rear tire. The ball joints do tend to cause one side of the bike to sit slightly lower than the other. You will not see a 1/4 inch but the flat rear tire will. Riding on one edge. This is not common but it can happen.

If the rear bearings are in good shape and the belt is riding normally, correctly aligning the front end with reference to the rear wheel position should have things in good running order if the front suspension is in good condition. Ball joints and a arm bushings are known failure points in the early model spyders.