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Rear shock stiffener for 2015 RT?
- Thread starter zz14hl1
- Start date
h0gr1der
New member
I researched this pretty heavily and found some facts. Baja Rons spring adjusters are too small, they're for the front shocks. Here's what I did. Not too hard, but it reduced the pressures in the air bag to just enough to keep the wrinkles out of it. You can search my name to see what I learned about this air/spring system.
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...r-Shock-Making-it-Adjustable&referrerid=34189
What's wrong with letting the air bag do its job?
If I had <my> way, the suspension would be ALL air, no coil springs.
You would ALWAYS have the proper spring rate for the load, and could maintain a constant ride height.
I realize that would be a perfect scenario, but my experience is with over-the-road semi trucks and also with S&W suspension on an early KZ1300 motorcycle 40 years ago.
.
If I had <my> way, the suspension would be ALL air, no coil springs.
You would ALWAYS have the proper spring rate for the load, and could maintain a constant ride height.
I realize that would be a perfect scenario, but my experience is with over-the-road semi trucks and also with S&W suspension on an early KZ1300 motorcycle 40 years ago.
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What you need is a half of set of Doc Humpries front spring spacers...He sold front spring stiffeners in sets of 4...And he also had 1/2 sets that worked on the rear spring...Doc has disappeared, but there may be some SL members that have some laying around,,,They are easy to install...I have them on the rear only of my 2014 RTS for several years...I can ride 2 up with no air in the air bag if needed...larryd
Wellll, technically you were right with the first bolded bit, Russ! :thumbup: But not with the second bolded & underlined bit!
Even Doc's coil eliminators aren't really 'stiffening the spring', they're actually only shortening the free coil length while maintaining & possibly slightly increasing the static spring height - so the bit of 'un-bound coil' that's left working is still the same rate as it was before, ie. no stiffer or weaker; but because the 'eliminators' are stopping a couple (or more) of coils from doing anything but maintaining height just like a couple of fat washers would - or if you like, they work in much the same way a 'too light' coil can still 'sorta hold the suspension up' even tho it's bound & fully collapsed.... only in this particular case the spring 'stiffness' hasn't changed, it's just got less height to compress cos a few coils are already bound..... and the only relief you'll be giving the air-bag zz, is really when the spring 'bottoms out' early & applies all of that compression force jarringly thru the frame! Which is definitely NOT a good idea!! :lecturef_smilie:
So zz, if you want to 'ease the load on the air bag when riding two up', you really need an a/mkt shock & heavier coil combo - or that 'full air bag' suspension Steve W mentioned, preferably 'full a/mkt' too! :thumbup:
Last edited:
h0gr1der
New member
Mr. Steve W,
From the number of air system failures written about the air compressor seems to be the weak link. Take one of those cheap, small tire inflators and make it operate at 50-90% capacity constantly and see how long it lasts. I found (on my Spyder) the air system constantly cycling, adding then bleeding off. So, in an effort to not have my Spyder in the middle of nowhere with a busted air compressor, I decided to do something about it. Now, my air bag maintains about 5-10 PSI, and when I load a passenger the air bag goes to about 35 PSI (if I remember correctly). Previously it went into the somewhere around 75-80 PSI two up. System still works as intended, a lot less stress on the air compressor, and I can't tell the difference in ride quality. Still a luxury barge!
trikermutha
New member
All Doc adjusters were a T bolt with a nut welded to it. Doing away with the compressor is the best way. But can be a bit pricey depending on what you do. I have seen some jam hard rubber in between the spring too. But results were not the best. Have not heard Bajz Ron selling a adjuster for the rear only the fronts. Good luck. Lots of info out there.
merlot
Member
Wellll, technically you were right with the first bolded bit, Russ! :thumbup: But not with the second bolded & underlined bit!
Even Doc's coil eliminators aren't really 'stiffening the spring', they're actually only shortening the free coil length while maintaining & possibly slightly increasing the static spring height - so the bit of 'un-bound coil' that's left working is still the same rate as it was before, ie. no stiffer or weaker; but because the 'eliminators' are stopping a couple (or more) of coils from doing anything but maintaining height just like a couple of fat washers would - or if you like, they work in much the same way a 'too light' coil can still 'sorta hold the suspension up' even tho it's bound & fully collapsed.... only in this particular case the spring 'stiffness' hasn't changed, it's just got less height to compress cos a few coils are already bound..... and the only relief you'll be giving the air-bag zz, is really when the spring 'bottoms out' early & applies all of that compression force jarringly thru the frame! Which is definitely NOT a good idea!! :lecturef_smilie:
So zz, if you want to 'ease the load on the air bag when riding two up', you really need an a/mkt shock & heavier coil combo - or that 'full air bag' suspension Steve W mentioned, preferably 'full a/mkt' too! :thumbup:
hi pete
i still maintain that RR spring coil eliminators work......ie they dont stiffen the spring but they do stiffen the ride
but having read a recent post from Baja ron re raising/lowering the front suspension height and consequently stiffening/softening the ride,which absolutely floored me, i completely withdraw from this subject as i now realise i dont know diddly squat about spring reactions and ride height and adjustable suspension per se
russ
They will certainly do that! :thumbup:
Not at all sure about the rest of your post above tho.... :lecturef_smilie: .....even if the complexities of suspension design & function are juuuust a little more complex than we might initially think! :shocked:
PMK
Active member
Actually, Docs spring things and even spring rubbers inserted into the coil spring will increase spring rate.
Spring rate is a function not only of the wire diameter, but also other factors such as material, coil pitch, end conditioning and more.
When I mention more, consider the springs length and more importantly, the number of active coils. As you decrease the number of active coils by either cutting the spring shorter or deadening the coils with inserts or heat, the spring rate will increase.
Adding simply preload under the springs seat will not increase spring rate since no coils are deadened or removed.
Increased preload will increase spring force at full shock extension and full compression.
Adding spring inserts may alter preload, but may not, it will however increase spring force at full compression via increased spring rate.
Spring rate is a function not only of the wire diameter, but also other factors such as material, coil pitch, end conditioning and more.
When I mention more, consider the springs length and more importantly, the number of active coils. As you decrease the number of active coils by either cutting the spring shorter or deadening the coils with inserts or heat, the spring rate will increase.
Adding simply preload under the springs seat will not increase spring rate since no coils are deadened or removed.
Increased preload will increase spring force at full shock extension and full compression.
Adding spring inserts may alter preload, but may not, it will however increase spring force at full compression via increased spring rate.
Lew L
Well-known member
These are aviaalave at auto parts stores and Summit racing. I'm going to look into them.
Larryd----- Was the install difficult????
Lew L
Mine were not difficult at all, Maybe 15 minutes...Just position them between the coils and turn 1/4 turn with a socket,extension & ratchet...But I do have a automotive lift in my garage with adapters for the Spyder...
With all the air compressor and component failures I needed to have something that I can continue to ride 2 up with...I got caught one time riding 2 up with an air ride failure...Impossible for us to ride 2 up when the failure occurred...Rear tire rubs hard on the inside of the rear top fender...Yes I also carry a small portable air compressor, but when the air leaks out as fast as you put it in, its no help...larryd
Lew L
Well-known member
Thanks Larry:thumbup:
I'll use a HF jack and remove the long thin panel exposing the spring. I want to use the rubber ones though.
Lew L
Lew L
Well-known member
Parts ordered from Amazon. Will be held in place with drilled hole for zip ties. ( thanks Youtube)
Well---- I gave up.
Not even with the Spyder's rear end raised so the shock & coil were at full extension/not under load?!? :shocked: That's odd, how big were the spacers?? Or was it just too tight in there to get any good leverage on them?? :dontknow:
Lew L
Well-known member
The spacers were big-- that's why I cut them down a little. I do believe I'll get them in with a bit more fine tuning. Yes the rear wheel was off the ground, sensor bolt removed, and bottom shock bolt out and the space between the coils really didn't change much. But I will get them in in a few days.
Could the air bag have something to do with it???? Last time we were out ( two up ), I had the pressure all the way up.
Could the air bag have something to do with it???? Last time we were out ( two up ), I had the pressure all the way up.
Increased pressure in the air bag should make it easier to fit the spacers due to the wider coil gap... unless maybe the stretched length of the bag was the thing restricting the swingarm droop - which I haven't found to be the usual case :dontknow:
If the shock & coil are only under tension from their own static (assembled) length, you probably won't get much more coil gap without taking the coil off the shock, and that's not something you really want to do without completely removing the shock/coil assy from the Spyder & using suitable coil spring compression tools - and then you still hafta compress the 'now jammed out longer' coil sufficiently to get the shock/coil back together again before you can re-install it on your Spyder.... :gaah:
So it sounds like that 'bit more fine tuning' & a lotta lube is probably the way to go... Good Luck! :thumbup:
If the shock & coil are only under tension from their own static (assembled) length, you probably won't get much more coil gap without taking the coil off the shock, and that's not something you really want to do without completely removing the shock/coil assy from the Spyder & using suitable coil spring compression tools - and then you still hafta compress the 'now jammed out longer' coil sufficiently to get the shock/coil back together again before you can re-install it on your Spyder.... :gaah:
So it sounds like that 'bit more fine tuning' & a lotta lube is probably the way to go... Good Luck! :thumbup:
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