What is the Actual USB Connector Voltage?

[gbyoung2]

In the glove box section of the Owner’s Manual, it says: “A double USB connector is also located inside the glove box. Each USB plug can charge with current up to 2.1A at 5V.”

However, if you look at the wiring diagram, it shows the source of the USB connectors power as coming from a switched 12V source, fuse F3, USB/ACC.

So, does anyone know what the real voltage available to the USB connectors? I’m a little leery of plugging my cell phone into it to see if it’ll charge.

 

[Peter Aawen]

The actual 'voltage supply' from the battery is 12 volts; while the USB plugs themselves take in that 12v input & cut their output down to a MAXIMUM of 5 volts @ 2.1 amps; but I think you might be asking the wrong question. You really want to know the maximum amperage your phone can be charged at, or maybe that should be the maximum wattage?! Someone who's more versed in this stuff than my thorough cursory understanding can handle might be able to explain it all better, but here goes...

Voltage is a measurement of the electric potential or "pressure" (current?!) at which electricity flows through a system, or if you like, the speed the electrons can travel thru the circuit; while Amperage is the "rate" that current is flowing through the circuit, or the number of electrons moving through the wiring; and Wattage is the amount of power an electric device consumes - another way to think about wattage is "electricity at work" or the power it takes to actually do something... I take it that you really don't want to push too much wattage into your phone?! :dontknow:

To calculate wattage, you simply multiply voltage (pressure/speed) by amperage (volume) - V x A = W. The faster each electron moves through the circuit (voltage), and the greater the volume that the circuit can hold (amperage), the higher the wattage. :thumbup:

So if as I take it is the case, you really don't want to fry your phone, then that means you want to know the max wattage it can handle. Your phone will have an ideal charging wattage on it/in its' specs somewhere, usually expressed as something like 5.0v~2.1a = 10.5w, and THAT is what's important for your phone, which should tie in nicely with the max 5.0v~2.1a output from those USB plugs... hyea:

I'm happy for someone else to correct my explanation/have a better go at presenting/understanding it; but if I've read what you're concerned about correctly, the 12v battery voltage never actually gets to the output side of the USB plugs, because they are specifically designed and engineered to only provide/allow sufficient power output to charge things like phones without frying them - their max output is only 5v & 2.1a, so V x A = 5 x 2.1, resulting in 10.2w MAX. :thumbup:

Make sense??

 

[gbyoung2]

No, I'm asking what the actual voltage is at that USB connector. According to the wiring diagram, there is nothing in that switched line to drop the voltage down from 12V to 5V. That same line also feeds a couple of ACC connections, ACC 1 and ACC 2.

 

[Peter Aawen]

OK, the actual voltage at those USB connectors is 5 volts - you can't see anything in the switched line to drop that because it's implicitly implied in the term 'USB Plug' or 'USB Connector'; and if you want to call it that, 'the circuitry' that manages this is effectively built into the USB Plug/Connector itself; but as specified, each USB plug can charge with current of up to 2.1 amps @ 5 volts.

Your phone will be safe, and if it can be fast charged, it'll probably even safely handle up to about 9 volts!

There's a heap of people here who've used those plugs for charging a wide variety of phones & GPS units, etc; and while we've seen quite a few people here saying that those plugs don't provide enough green steam to charge their phones/GPS' etc, I really can't recall anyone having any 'high voltage' issues from them, not ever! nojoke

Just Sayin' hyea:

 

[racoon]

No, I'm asking what the actual voltage is at that USB connector.

Peter Aawen has it correct, as this is a USB power question, not a battery power question.

The connector is a USB A type, so you need to look at the USB 2.0 specifications, which are 4.75 V to 5.25 V.

USB C and the USB 3.0 spec increased the maximum to 5.5v.


It's a bit long, but the details can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware

 

[gbyoung2]

My concern was that there isn't anything indicated in the wiring diagram that would drop the 12v down to USB standards. If the glove box's USB connector has that built in like you indicated (probably using a zener diode scheme), that's great. Sure would have been nice if BRP had indicated that in the Manual so folks like myself aren't left scratching their heads.

Thank yoiu.

 

[Albec]

My concern was that there isn't anything indicated in the wiring diagram that would drop the 12v down to USB standards. If the glove box's USB connector has that built in like you indicated (probably using a zener diode scheme), that's great. Sure would have been nice if BRP had indicated that in the Manual so folks like myself aren't left scratching their heads.

Thank yoiu.

Most likely, a simple voltage bridge circuit is used.

Why would BRP indicate the 5vdc in the USB circuit? The 5vdc is implied, no need to show it.

If that circuit was suppling 12vdc, there would be a LOT of unhappy cellphone users, me included because it would most likely fry the phone.

During charging, the phone will only draw the amount of current it needs to charge, no more, no less.

 

[racoon]

My concern was that there isn't anything indicated in the wiring diagram that would drop the 12v down to USB standards. If the glove box's USB connector has that built in like you indicated (probably using a zener diode scheme), that's great. Sure would have been nice if BRP had indicated that in the Manual so folks like myself aren't left scratching their heads.

The Operators Guide says it's a USB connection, and just looking at it you know the connector is a USB A.

BRP didn't provide details of the USB connection, since they aren't responsible for the USB standard, just for implementing their USB ports to meet the standard.

My 2024 Spyder RT Sea2Sky also has two USB connections in the top case. There is a difference in how the Operators Guide describes the ports, but only because the front USB connection is what you have to use if you are going to use Apple CarPlay, but other than that, no details are provided.

 

[RayBJ]

You are over-thinking this. BRP documentation is less than ideal. USB ports ARE ALL ~5V OUTPUT regardless of what the printed wiring diagram shows. What varies is the AMPERAGE of the output. Lower AMPs will take longer to charge and may not be strong enough to keep some phones charged if running mapping apps.

Just 'plug'er in!

 

[racoon]

I was curious, so I just checked the Owners Manual for my 2023 Honda Ridgeline.

There are four USB ports in the cab.
One in the center dash.
One inside the center storage compartment.
Two on the back of the center storage compartment for the rear seat passengers.

It specifically says the center dash port is USB 2.0 but doesn't mention which version the other ports are.

The center dash port is 1.5A and can be used to play music from the Apple or Android phone, along with Apple CarPlay or Android Auto navigation.
Inside the storage compartment is 1.0A and can be used for charging, and if you connect a USB flash drive you can play music from the drive through the audio system.
The two ports on the back of the storage compartment provide 2.5A and are for charging only.


Another weird thing I found while looking for the USB information, is that you can also load JPEG images on the flash drive connected to the port inside the center storage compartment, and then select an image to display as the background on the center console display.

 

[gbyoung2]

"Why would BRP indicate the 5vdc in the USB circuit? The 5vdc is implied, no need to show it."

My short time with the BRP documentation seems that they do that a lot. It appears that they assume that everyone knows everything about the inner workings of their product, or USB standards, or how 12 vdc mystically gets changed down to 5 vdc without any obvious means of doing so. A simple 5-10 word comment would have taken care of that and I wouldn't have bothered ya'll with all these inane questions.

Anyway, enough of that.

My whole reason for bringing up the USB connector issue is because the one on my new-to-me 2022 Sport was dead. That's what had me digging through the wiring diagram to try and figure out where its power was coming from. Of course, all I found was a switched 12v line going to it. 12volts ain't 5 volts, which is what prompted the original question.

When it was mentioned that the connector itself did the conversion, I suddenly remembered that I carry a small plug-in cigarette lighter phone charger for my other three bikes. Same end result regardless of the technology involved.

Like anything you purchase used, chances are a PO has done some things that weren't exactly up to snuff, or met your standards of workmanship. This machine was no different. Even tho' it was a lady's machine, her hubby was the one that added in a slew of add-ons, to include: steering damper, HD sway bar and links, dashcam with 2 cameras, highway pegs, floorboards, F/R shift lever, Ultimate seat w/backrest and pillion section, tail trunk w/pillion cushion, saddlebags, tank bra, and wrap on the two upper body panels. And yes, I found a number of things were what I call, "oops!"

Because I knew he had a lot of the panels and other pieces off for the stuff he added on, that kind of had me zeroing in on the Fast-On terminals on the back of the USB connector in the glove box. I didn't know if one or both were left/knocked off, or if the polarity was hooked up wrong. Turned out it was the latter. Once corrected, the connector came back to life.

So, we're a happy camper and can have fun piecing the thing back together again.

TCARS

 

[Ages]

The Operators Guide says it's a USB connection, and just looking at it you know the connector is a USB A.

BRP didn't provide details of the USB connection, since they aren't responsible for the USB standard, just for implementing their USB ports to meet the standard.

My 2024 Spyder RT Sea2Sky also has two USB connections in the top case. There is a difference in how the Operators Guide describes the ports, but only because the front USB connection is what you have to use if you are going to use Apple CarPlay, but other than that, no details are provided.

Did your Spyder (same as mine) come with a splitter? Mine only has one USB wired in, there is another potential port right beside that one that is capped off on my Spyder. Does anyone know if you can connect a USB Hub to the Spyder's dashboard USB? If so, does it effect the overall performance of all devices connected to the Hub via USB? I haven't figured out how to post pictures on here yet or I would post one.

 

[Gwolf]

You worry about 12 volts to 5 volts, but not about the one you plug in the wall, which is 120 volts to 5 volts?

 

[racoon]

Did your Spyder (same as mine) come with a splitter? Mine only has one USB wired in, there is another potential port right beside that one that is capped off on my Spyder. Does anyone know if you can connect a USB Hub to the Spyder's dashboard USB? If so, does it effect the overall performance of all devices connected to the Hub via USB? I haven't figured out how to post pictures on here yet or I would post one.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "splitter"? Do you mean something like a "Y" cable?
And where do you see a capped off port?

I'm only aware of the three USB ports that came from the factory on my 2024 Spyder. All of them are Type A connectors.
The one in the glove box in front of the handlebars, and the two in the top case. The top case ports only provide power, and aren't able to transfer data.


And to throw a confusing wrench into the discussion, I have added the following to my 2024 Spyder RT.
It connects to the accessory power port that's under the right front plastic panel next to the front tire.

Can-Am Spyder RT Phone Holder / Mount with USB Charge Ports (2020+)

Enjoy hands free navigation when riding your 2020+ Can-Am Spyder RT with our hands free Smart Phone Docking Station

www.slingmods.com

Along with a ball to install a clamp to mount my phone, it provides 2 USB power ports and one 12v "cigarette lighter" socket.

 

[Gwolf]

You worry about 12 volts to 5 volts, but not about the one you plug in the wall, which is 120 volts to 5 volts?

Really, I was wondering why you might be worried about a little 12 volt to 5 volt reducer, but not worried about a wall plug cell phone charger. If you think the 12 volt to 5 volt reducer should be larger, maybe heavier, then the 120 volt to 5 volt would naturally weigh about 150 pounds and be the size of 260 Amp welder which can throw a 3/4 inch stroke of pure lightning the temperature of the surface of the sun and melt plates of solid steel together.

But hidden in there is the magic word. The word is AMPs. To charge up a cell phone, you don't need the kind of AMPs that you have to weld steel plate. In fact, you don't even need a whole AMP.. The little wall chargers are operating at maybe around 1 AMP like 1,000 Milliamps. The quick chargers might run up to 2.4 amps. To reduce the voltage on that kind of tiny charge would not require a huge transformer. You don't really need to get into OHM's Law to figure out that pushing a tiny spark of power to charge a little battery does not have to be same as pushing a huge amount of spark to weld or pump water or any of the thousands of other jobs which would require a more powerful working load. You don't have the problem with heat generation requiring heat sinks or even fans like a larger transformer would. Also consider you are not pushing the spark in a few seconds to charge the batteries up, it will take more like hours, depending on the amount of discharge. Most of the modern chargers also have some built in safeguards to prevent over-charging.

The little wall chargers are not much larger than the 12 volt to 5 volt because they are not pushing any more amps.

The battery chargers are not an exact voltage. The battery is not doing work. It is only potential energy. It works a little like water seeking its own level. The feed voltage has to be slightly higher than the voltage you are trying to charge the battery up to. The 12 volt battery in the vehicle is not exactly 12 volts. That is only the rated voltage. It will be slightly higher when the battery is fully charged, The 12 volt battery will be 12.8 maybe even 13 volts at rest. It will drop off a lot when the starter is engaged or the lights left on for a while. It is not an exact voltage, but a voltage range. The same applies to the cell phone battery. It has to be supplied with slightly more voltage than the rated amount or the voltage cannot come back up to fully charged. The cell phone battery is also potential energy. With the 5 volt charger you are also shooting for a range, and not an exact voltage.

Several things to remember when thinking about electricity. Electricity that you are measuring is not, or may not be flowing through the wires at all. It is just sitting there as potential energy just like the charge in a battery. It only begins to move through the wires when it is doing some work. Anything you measure in a wall box or in the wires of a vehicle is just sitting still and waiting to be called on to do something. Of course, you can have a leaky wire or some vampire current loss due to small scrapes on insulation, or due to some device that stays on even when the key is off, for instance the alarm system, or even an electric clock will draw a tiny amount of power. The main power you are measuring is only potential energy. It will almost never be exactly the rated voltage for that battery. The battery will not always be at the same charge level. Nothing with electricity is exact. There is voltage drop from the resistance of the wiring it has to run through. Running through insulated wires makes it drop more than running through bare wires strung overhead. The farther it runs, the more resistance it encounters. That is normally compensated for by using a larger gauge wire for longer runs. It should be close to the rated voltage, but will almost never be the exact rated voltage. On really long runs like miles and miles through the power companies wires, they put huge transformer banks on the system and punch the voltage way on up, 4140 or maybe even more. Then it has to be dropped back down to a usable voltage when it reaches the destination.

 

[Ages]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "splitter"? Do you mean something like a "Y" cable?
And where do you see a capped off port?

I'm only aware of the three USB ports that came from the factory on my 2024 Spyder. All of them are Type A connectors.
The one in the glove box in front of the handlebars, and the two in the top case. The top case ports only provide power, and aren't able to transfer data.


And to throw a confusing wrench into the discussion, I have added the following to my 2024 Spyder RT.
It connects to the accessory power port that's under the right front plastic panel next to the front tire.

Can-Am Spyder RT Phone Holder / Mount with USB Charge Ports (2020+)

Enjoy hands free navigation when riding your 2020+ Can-Am Spyder RT with our hands free Smart Phone Docking Station

www.slingmods.com

Along with a ball to install a clamp to mount my phone, it provides 2 USB power ports and one 12v "cigarette lighter" socket.

The splitter is a "Y" cable. The USB in the glove box has what appears to be a capped space right beside where the USB cable enters through the bottom of glove box. I've been doing a little research today, what you have done is what I need to do. I'll have to tap into the accessory power line if I want to add a USB 3.0 Hub to my Spyder. I found a Hub online that has 3 USB 3.0 ports and one type C port. Prior to the research I wasn't aware of the the transfer speeds, data and power upgrades that USB 3.0 has over USB 2.0. I was ignorantly thinking that perhaps I could just "Y" off the 2.0 port and feed my phone and my newly purchased dash cam/navigation device (AooccI C6 Pro) simultaneously, one with 2.0 and the other with 3.0. Now that I've been enlightened (lol) I am aware that my better option is to install the Hub by tapping into the accessory power line as you have. The C6 Pro is pretty much the same type of system as the Carpuride system, they both support Auto Android, Apple Car Play and a bunch of other apps including navigation, and come with front and back cameras. The C6 Pro also comes with a tire pressure monitoring system as well. I don't need the TPMS though, I bought the FOBO 2 TPMS from Lamonster Garage. Aoocci only provides two TPMS caps, they weren't thinking about the three wheelers. The C6 Pro has higher resolution cameras as well (records 30 fps @ AHD 1920 x 1080P H.264), display screen resolution is 1560 x 720P.

 

[racoon]

I was ignorantly thinking that perhaps I could just "Y" off the 2.0 port and feed my phone and my newly purchased dash cam/navigation device (AooccI C6 Pro) simultaneously, one with 2.0 and the other with 3.0. Now that I've been enlightened (lol) I am aware that my better option is to install the Hub by tapping into the accessory power line as you have.

A couple of things that are confusing to me.

The USB cable in the gloves box allows for data communication between an iPhone and the CAN-AM Carplay implementation for the display, and provides USB 2.0 power to keep your iPhone charged.
The accessory power port I tapped into only provides power, and does not support any data communication.
If you power a hub from the accessory power port, and then plug several devices into the hub, the hub will facilitate communication between the devices connected to the hub but no data will be passed to your Spyder's display.

 

[Ages]

A couple of things that are confusing to me.

The USB cable in the gloves box allows for data communication between an iPhone and the CAN-AM Carplay implementation for the display, and provides USB 2.0 power to keep your iPhone charged.
The accessory power port I tapped into only provides power, and does not support any data communication.
If you power a hub from the accessory power port, and then plug several devices into the hub, the hub will facilitate communication between the devices connected to the hub but no data will be passed to your Spyder's display.

If I'm understanding you correctly this is where you would use your phone's blue tooth and/or wi-fi. Here is a link to the Aoocci C6 Pro user manual. It's explained and illustrated in webpage format. Make sure you scroll down to the FAQ at the bottom. It mentions the connection via blue tooth and/or wi-fi. I tested the system via my computer USB, the dash cam display worked great. Here is the link:

Aoocci C6 Pro User Manual

Discover the ultimate guide to using the Aoocci C6 Pro. Learn how to install, set up, and maximize its features for a seamless riding experience. Capture every moment with confidence!

aoocci.com