Starting to hunt down what is causing a P16C8 code.

[CloverHillCrawler]

I had this happen to me before when coming down off Mount Storm, Full throttle on the highway, then when I go over an expansion joint on each end of a bridge, my F3 goes into limp home mode. I pull off the road, turn off the engine and remove the key, and everything goes back to normal.

This happened to me twice today on I-81 on my way to Maryville, Tn, where I am staying while clearing my head riding around the Smokies. The second time it happened, I was able to see the code before it reset. P16C8, I looked it up.

1. Potential Causes: Weak or failing battery - Low system voltage frequently causes false or secondary electronic control module (ECM) faults. Not this, put my Noco on the Genius 2 before I left. I will check voltage with my multi meter in the morning.

2. Loose battery terminals: Poor electrical connections can disrupt voltage stability to the ride-by-wire throttle system. Not this - Battery is Wrench tight with star washers. I will see if I can inspect the cabling coming off the TPS when I check voltage.

3. Throttle Position Sensor (TPS): Calibration drift or a need for a sensor relearn procedure. I'm thinking more this, but why with the combination of being at full throttle and hitting bumps? That's why I want to inspect the connection to the TPS.

Other than the 2 incidents on 81, I already did a ride to Deals Gap and back on the Dragon with no issues.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I've mentioned this before, had it happen to my RT, and I've seen it on a couple of other Spyders since, altho for different problems/no Codes, but there seem to have been a few battery cables that've been fitted to Spyders which have poor soldering securing the lugs onto the end of the main cables!

So even if checking the bolts holding those lugs onto the battery, the frame, or whichever terminal they are secured to can show they are all tight, have star washers, and fix onto bright metal, showing they are apparently fine; but if you grab the cable and try to wriggle it, things might be different! It's usually pretty apparent if the lug itself isn't secured all that well onto the cable, meaning that any bump you hit or movement in the cable can interrupt the power to whatever component or every component, usually momentarily, but not always!

With my RT, it was the lug on the end of the Main Earth cable to the Frame from the battery, the lug where it secures to the frame by the DPS, so I noticed the DPS dropping out intermittently first, but that soon progressed to everything! When it first happened, I checked all the terminals I could get at, including that one, for tight, good star washer enhanced connections onto bright metal, and like all the rest, it was good! It was only when I went back, after even more problems, to remove the battery that I noticed the cable end moving in the lug, where it should have been a firm, tight, connection, and I resolved that problem. After that, when owners present with these sort of intermittent problems, I've taken to checking all the cable to lug connections immediately after doing the 'Load test the battery FIRST' thing, and I've found at least one poor connection on a tad over half of the Spyders I've seen with these sorts of problems, and it doesn't seem to be more prevalent on any particular year/model either - early, late, V-twins, 1330's, old/lotsa miles, new/very few miles... duz'n matta! I'd guess at it being a quality control issue on behalf of whoever makes the cables, but our local dealer doesn't seem to be the least bit interested in pursuing that!

So, for my two bob's worth & this small saga, this may or may not be something contributing to your problem, but it's probably worth looking at/considering - because of that bump reaction, I'd guess there's something loose somewhere has to be the cause. But I'll still say that, as with all these sorts of weird electrical problems &/or odd codes, as always, it's still a good idea to load test the battery FIRST and check the battery voltage while actually cranking the motor over, and here's the cracked record bit - if you see anything much less than 12 volts while actually cranking, even with a lithium battery (or maybe especially? They're usually pretty good... ) there's an issue. Lower voltage than that while cranking likely means that for some reason or another, your battery isn't fully up to the task of running all the power hungry electronics/electrical demands of these power hungry machines!

Good Luck!

 

[Mikey]

The way he's explaining his issue you may have hit the nail hard on the head Peter!! You know, checking the lugs well has not been on my radar, but will be from now on! Thanks!!

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

The way he's explaining his issue you may have hit the nail hard on the head Peter!! You know, checking the lugs well has not been on my radar, but will be from now on! Thanks!!

Yea, no issues with the lugs and I know what to look for. On my very first car I bought when I was 16 which was a old 1971 Impala, I learned this lesson not only about lugs but how battery acid can travel into the cable and corrode the cable inside the sheathing without showing much signs of it. That Battery tested good and would take a charge from a charger, the alternator would test good, but when I put the battery back in the car, it would die within minutes of driving it. After the third time, my dad looked at the cables, took his knife and sliced it open a little, and it revealed the corrosion on the cable.

On my F3, I inspected the cable and lugs and found no issues, the voltage is good and steady while standing and at load. I would imagine if it was a loose or exposed connection that was rubbing it would happen with more frequency and at lower speeds as I normally drive on pretty rough mountain roads in Northern Maryland and South Central Pa.

This only happens when at Full Throttle for extended times, going downhill on grades at higher altitude's (2500-3500 ft), then going across a bridge. I did a test on the way back and only used full throttle on the highway in bursts, not using it for an extended time, and I had no issues.

I also pushed it pretty hard on the Tail of the Dragon with no issues and I got about 8 runs in over 2 days. I am hoping Killboy took a video, I accidently did a drift and pivot on the hairpin when I hit the throttle in 2nd gear a little too early, but I still kept it within the lines. I am getting ready to go download the pics from them now.

For some reason, I think that whatever logic the programming is using, the extended time that I was keeping it at full throttle is tripping off a limit and seeing it as an error?

I just threw in a pic of the beautiful sunset I had on my first night on the Dragon from the boat ramp that has cell service.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well @CloverHillCrawler, you're on the right track. Reading through your previous post, I see that you pulled up a summary of causes from Google. But specifically for BRP products, the cause of this code is listed on the attachment. And No, I wouldn't get too concerned about the ECM fault part of it, unless the code was persistent. It appears to be a common code in most other BRP power sports products as well, not limited to Spyders. This code has popped up on other Can Am forums, and yes, the common thread is operating at full throttle. But, there's no correlation with jolts from rough terrain or expansion joints. Most other operators just ignore it because it fixes itself, and they also don't operate at full throttle for prolonged periods… and that's not a problem that I’ll ever experience, either.

The TPS on the 1330, unlike the 998, is built in and an integral part of the entire throttle body assembly. You wouldn't find it by looking for it and it doesn't have its own harness connector. If you ever wanted to replace it, you'd need to replace the entire TB. If it really bothers you, you can do another TPS learning procedure with BUDS. Or, RMWL.

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

Thanks @Snowbelt Spyder, I had seen that as well, I just didn't post it, as I was on my phone at the Dragon when I originally posted. I am getting ready to change the brakes including rotors, as I plan on upgrading to Martin's floating rotors, and the oil.

Afterwards, I was needing to take it in to Brooks any way, to have Ryan put it on BUDS so that I can have the brake system bled. I'll ask him about the TPS learning procedure.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

BUDS2>Settings>ECM>Relearn TPS

Oh, sorry, your dealer will be using BUDS3. Don’t know my way around that.

 

[Jetfixer]

BUDS3>Functions/Settings (the wrench icon) >Click on "Config" filters >Scroll down to Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) > Click on right arrow.

 

[BCNewell]

Thanks @Snowbelt Spyder, I had seen that as well, I just didn't post it, as I was on my phone at the Dragon when I originally posted. I am getting ready to change the brakes including rotors, as I plan on upgrading to Martin's floating rotors, and the oil.

Afterwards, I was needing to take it in to Brooks any way, to have Ryan put it on BUDS so that I can have the brake system bled. I'll ask him about the TPS learning procedure.

Hey @CloverHillCrawler - keep us posted about your thoughts on his rotor/pad setup. The spousal unit and I are joining one of his ToursOn3 rides in about 5 weeks. Been seriously considering throwing a set in my checked baggage on the way home. The ‘17 Daytona has 20K on the original pads front & rear, and I could save a bundle on freight…

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

Hey @CloverHillCrawler - keep us posted about your thoughts on his rotor/pad setup. The spousal unit and I are joining one of his ToursOn3 rides in about 5 weeks. Been seriously considering throwing a set in my checked baggage on the way home. The ‘17 Daytona has 20K on the original pads front & rear, and I could save a bundle on freight…

I haven't order it yet,but when I do I'll post something up, it may be a couple of months before I get them.