Brake materials...

[bone crusher]

Heard from Carlo today. We DO have stainless steel rotors and semi-metallic pads...this is a great combination...the following is not Carlo's take, but is info. from what I have read...

In regards to another post several days ago, organic pads, if you choose to switch, will not screech as much but they are softer, flake all over and make a mess, and wear out much faster...also, they do not exert the same braking power as semi-metallic...

 

[NancysToy]

Heard from Carlo today. We DO have stainless steel rotors and semi-metallic pads...this is a great combination...the following is not Carlo's take, but is info. from what I have read...

In regards to another post several days ago, organic pads, if you choose to switch, will not screech as much but they are softer, flake all over and make a mess, and wear out much faster...also, they do not exert the same braking power as semi-metallic...

I figured this...but it is good to get the confirmation. Thanks for searching it out and posting the info.

BTW, there are lots of different "semi-metallic" pads around. They all have organic content, too. Some have more, and some have less. In general, organic pads stop well, but they are much more prone to "fade". If you use the brakes lightly, you may never notice the difference between high organic content vs. high metallic content. In fact, under some braking conditions, the organics may actually grab a little better. If you use the brakes hard enough to cause them to fade, though, semi-metallic or sintered pads will do a better job.

Please also note that the EBC pads are Kevlar, not the typical "organic" material. They should do well under non-competitive braking conditions.

 

[groundeffect]

bc: Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Carlo: thanks for sharing and taking time with us Spyder owners/ryders!


:thumbup:
Cheers from Newfoundland, guys!
Dean

 

[Firefly]

I figured this...but it is good to get the confirmation. Thanks for searching it out and posting the info.

BTW, there are lots of different "semi-metallic" pads around. They all have organic content, too. Some have more, and some have less. In general, organic pads stop well, but they are much more prone to "fade". If you use the brakes lightly, you may never notice the difference between high organic content vs. high metallic content. In fact, under some braking conditions, the organics may actually grab a little better. If you use the brakes hard enough to cause them to fade, though, semi-metallic or sintered pads will do a better job.

Please also note that the EBC pads are Kevlar, not the typical "organic" material. They should do well under non-competitive braking conditions.

Interesting.... so what's the opinion on Kevlar (EBC) vs. semi-metallic ?

Do they stop as well? Make more of a mess?

 

[NancysToy]

Interesting.... so what's the opinion on Kevlar (EBC) vs. semi-metallic ?

Do they stop as well? Make more of a mess?

Technically, pads containing Kevlar are classed with other non-metallic and non-ceramic pads. All are called "organic". Asbestos used to be used, but is uncommon now due to safety concerns. "Organic" pads produce less rotor wear, produce less brake dust, and make less noise than semi-metallic pads. The trade-off is reduced heat dissipation, and easier brake fade. Organic pads need to be used in systems that are designed or tested with them, to assure good performance under heavy use.

Semi-metallic pads have good heat dissipation, are less expensive, and exhibit reduced brake fade, depending on the metallic content. They are dustier, even leaving "cooked-on" rust deposits if they use steel shavings instead of brass or copper. They are often noisy, and the metallic content wears rotors faster...and sometimes unevenly, requiring more frequent rotor replacement. High metallic content pads, as well as sintered metal pads, tend to have less "feel" to the brakes, although they stop well, with an even, relatively hard feel.

Since we don't have the choices of either ceramic or sintered metal pads for the Spyder, we will have to choose between the other two alternatives. I will probably try EBC pads when the time comes. I have liked them on other motorcycles...but I ride way ahead of myself, and I am easy on brakes. They seldom get the "acid test" from me.

 

[bone crusher]

I figured this...but it is good to get the confirmation. Thanks for searching it out and posting the info.

BTW, there are lots of different "semi-metallic" pads around. They all have organic content, too. Some have more, and some have less. In general, organic pads stop well, but they are much more prone to "fade". If you use the brakes lightly, you may never notice the difference between high organic content vs. high metallic content. In fact, under some braking conditions, the organics may actually grab a little better. If you use the brakes hard enough to cause them to fade, though, semi-metallic or sintered pads will do a better job.

Please also note that the EBC pads are Kevlar, not the typical "organic" material. They should do well under non-competitive braking conditions.

Kevlar...gotcha...wonder if anyone makes a ceramic...they are supposed to work a little smoother than semi-metallic...

Regardless, I think BRP's use of stainless and semi-metallic is a good pairing...

 

[bone crusher]

Technically, pads containing Kevlar are classed with other non-metallic and non-ceramic pads. All are called "organic". Asbestos used to be used, but is uncommon now due to safety concerns. "Organic" pads produce less rotor wear, produce less brake dust, and make less noise than semi-metallic pads. The trade-off is reduced heat dissipation, and easier brake fade. Organic pads need to be used in systems that are designed or tested with them, to assure good performance under heavy use.

Semi-metallic pads have good heat dissipation, are less expensive, and exhibit reduced brake fade, depending on the metallic content. They are dustier, even leaving "cooked-on" rust deposits if they use steel shavings instead of brass or copper. They are often noisy, and the metallic content wears rotors faster...and sometimes unevenly, requiring more frequent rotor replacement. High metallic content pads, as well as sintered metal pads, tend to have less "feel" to the brakes, although they stop well, with an even, relatively hard feel.

Since we don't have the choices of either ceramic or sintered metal pads for the Spyder, we will have to choose between the other two alternatives. I will probably try EBC pads when the time comes. I have liked them on other motorcycles...but I ride way ahead of myself, and I am easy on brakes. They seldom get the "acid test" from me.

Scotty, most sources I've checked say that the organic create a lot more brake dust than the semi-metallic. They break down faster, hence shed more material...

 

[Firefly]

Scotty, most sources I've checked say that the organic create a lot more brake dust than the semi-metallic. They break down faster, hence shed more material...

Perhaps since the material is 'organic' it's not as messy though?

 

[boborgera]

Interesting.... so what's the opinion on Kevlar (EBC) vs. semi-metallic ?

Do they stop as well? Make more of a mess?

opcorn:
Just me but i don't care about a mess, I just would like to know which pad's stop you better, I like to stop when i want to. A 10 foot extra stopping distance will in most cases make more of a mess. :yikes: And besides i have enough gray hairs i don't need any more.

 

[NancysToy]

Scotty, most sources I've checked say that the organic create a lot more brake dust than the semi-metallic. They break down faster, hence shed more material...

The sources I looked at said the opposite, and my experience bears that out. Have you ever tried to get the rusty colored stains off the alloy wheels on a car or truck? Those are from the metallic materials in the semi-metallic pads.

 

[bone crusher]

Perhaps since the material is 'organic' it's not as messy though?

That's funny...organic has nothing to do with the 'green' effort, silly! :roflblack::roflblack:

 

[bone crusher]

opcorn:
Just me but i don't care about a mess, I just would like to know which pad's stop you better, I like to stop when i want to. A 10 foot extra stopping distance will in most cases make more of a mess. :yikes: And besides i have enough gray hairs i don't need any more.

Semi-metallic will stop you better...

 

[bone crusher]

The sources I looked at said the opposite, and my experience bears that out. Have you ever tried to get the rusty colored stains off the alloy wheels on a car or truck? Those are from the metallic materials in the semi-metallic pads.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-parts/brake-pads1.htm

http://www.ehow.com/about_5478753_ceramic-vs-organic-brake-pads.html

 

[NancysToy]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-parts/brake-pads1.htm

http://www.ehow.com/about_5478753_ceramic-vs-organic-brake-pads.html

The articles you cite don't really compare dusting of organic pads with semi-metallic ones. They mention only the difference between the organics and ceramic. There is no doubt that organic pads leave dust, especially compared to the ceramic pads. The semi-metallic pads seem worse, though, and the metallic dust is harder to remove, especially when it corrodes. You will note that the one article also admits that semi-metallic pads do not stop as well when they are cold.

The best comparison I have found is here. They have a good comparison chart. Unfortunately, they did not throw sintered metal pads into the mix. If EBC offered those for the Spyder, I would try them in an instant. My preference would be ceramic, though. I think that would offer the best of all choices...low noise, low dust, fade resistance, and stong stopping power.

 

[bone crusher]

The articles you cite don't really compare dusting of organic pads with semi-metallic ones. They mention only the difference between the organics and ceramic. There is no doubt that organic pads leave dust, especially compared to the ceramic pads. The semi-metallic pads seem worse, though, and the metallic dust is harder to remove, especially when it corrodes. You will note that the one article also admits that semi-metallic pads do not stop as well when they are cold.

The best comparison I have found is here. They have a good comparison chart. Unfortunately, they did not throw sintered metal pads into the mix. If EBC offered those for the Spyder, I would try them in an instant. My preference would be ceramic, though. I think that would offer the best of all choices...low noise, low dust, fade resistance, and stong stopping power.

Yeah, ceramic does sound like a good option but I think they're more expensive...considerably?...also, there are no options for the Spyder, are there? I know our semis squeak a lot, but they're configured for the bike in regards to material needed for optimal stopping performance. I'm not sure that organic will do as well...and they will wear faster...I think I'll stick with stock and just go with what BRP uses...

 

[BajaRon]

I see you did run this down Bone Crusher. Good job! :thumbup: You were right!

Still puzzels me a bit that EBC does not make the Semi-Metallic but I'm sure they have their reasons. May be more economic than performance based.

I believe that the semi-metallic and good organic (ie, Kevlar used by EBC) will have similar stopping ability unless they really get very hot.

The Organic will fade sooner than semi-metallic but that will take much more than 1 panic stop. I am not sure you would see a big difference or any difference at all in 1 panic stop. But it would be interesting to find a way to compare.

I don't know that anyone is riding the Spyder hard enough to need sintered or ceramic but they would be great to try.

I will probaly get the EBC pads when I need new ones unless they get negative reviews.

 

[BajaRon]

Yeah, ceramic does sound like a good option but I think they're more expensive...considerably?...also, there are no options for the Spyder, are there? I know our semis squeak a lot, but they're configured for the bike in regards to material needed for optimal stopping performance. I'm not sure that organic will do as well...and they will wear faster...I think I'll stick with stock and just go with what BRP uses...

I used to know a guy that would put any brake material on any pad/shoe. I think there probably is a way to do it if someone really wanted to.

 

[Just Doo Me]

I remember reading a post where someone said the EBC pads did not have a whole lot more pad depth, as compared to the used oem pads they were taking off because of wear :dontknow: anyone else see that post? I was going to order a set of the EBC's to have on hand from Dennis Kirk's [best price I found]but backordered.

 

[NancysToy]

I remember reading a post where someone said the EBC pads did not have a whole lot more pad depth, as compared to the used oem pads they were taking off because of wear :dontknow: anyone else see that post? I was going to order a set of the EBC's to have on hand from Dennis Kirk's [best price I found]but backordered.

Due to the existing equipment's design, all pads must have approximately the same depth. Otherwise they will not fit.