BRP Customer Service Issue

[RinconRyder]

Example of how NOT to run a business....

I recently took my Spyder in to my local BRP dealer after making the appointment 9 days earlier. On the day the vehicle was supposed to be serviced the advisor called, late in the day, to tell me the necessary part was out of stock but would be obtained from another dealer and the vehicle would be ready by end-of-day the next day. This "necessary part" was a known requirement when the service was scheduled.

After not hearing from advisor by next day end-of-day I called 30 minutes before closing to ask the situation and was told there was some reason the Spyder could not be worked on. A bolt head had been stripped by the previous owner/installer and to remove it would require the replacement of an entire sub-assembly. My confidence reached a new low so I asked the advisor to button up the Spyder and I would forego the suggested maintenance (which was described as "optional" by BRP). This raises another question as to how a suggested maintenance item can be "optional". This was a part replacement and not just an inspection.

After buying the Spyder, I visited this same dealer to have a spare ignition key made (the previous owner had misplaced his 2nd key). Had to wait a week or so just to order a blank (no blanks in stock) and another two days to get key cut and programmed.

From these two events I have determined this dealer doesn't carry an adequate parts inventory - even the cheaper parts like key blanks. It also appears their inventory system does not link parts in inventory to outstanding service orders so they have the right part on hand for the service. Considering this particular part was part of a general service order affecting many Spyders this is inexcusable. Had their service crew been on the ball a phone call stating the problem and suggesting a one day delay would seem appropriate but was not made.

These two particular screw-ups didn't affect me all that much but what happens to the poor sap who is on the road and loses his Spyder to SNAFU's like this?

Judging by the size of this dealer and the number of different vehicles it sells and services these two problems are very difficult to understand. What isn't hard to understand are the low ratings given by customers. What is completely baffling is how a dealer selling and servicing such pricey vehicles can operate this way.

A few days ago my frustration boiled over and I submitted feedback to BRP corporate that outlined my personal experiences with the brand as well as the more common issues gleaned from the forum. Here, in part, was their response:

Please be rest assured that BRP keeps track of all comments received from its customers. We understand your situation and it is unfortunate that there is nothing that can be done at this point, considering that the dealer is already working with BRP to get the parts.

Not surprisingly they completely missed the point and the fact they don't understand the basic problem likely means Spyder owners are not in for any improvement any time soon if ever.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Keeping parts in stock can be expensive, and if they never sell they eventually become scrap. Sadly, I think the economics of operating a business such as a motorcycle dealership and service shop has reached the point where an occasional upset customer costs less in the long run than does a stagnant parts inventory.

But I agree with you to the extent that for any part that is scheduled to be replaced there should be at least one on the shelf. I had to order and wait for the canister pre-filter even though it is a replacement item at 28,000 miles. I would not be surprised if a dealer stocks some parts that are reserved for the shop and DIY customers have to wait for one to be ordered.

 

[jaherbst]

Judging by your location you were probably dealing with Ride Now Powersports. (Not my Favorite) They have 40+ dealerships through out the USA and are based out of PHX.

Each of their dealerships stock only certain parts. i.e. you have a one in forty chance that your dealership has the specific part that you need. This alleviates each Ride Now dealer from stocking a complete inventory. When a certain part is needed you pay first and the part is located from their own network of dealers and it is shipped to your dealer. Usually takes 3-10 days for arrival depending on which part of the country and which dealer in there network has the part. This my friend is how they operate. Coulter Cadillac the parent company works the same with their large network of dealerships.

This is sad but true. It will explain the lack of parts inventory at your dealership if it is Ride Now Powersports.

Jack

 

[RinconRyder]

When the appointment was made, and needed a known part to complete, the part(s) should have been taken from inventory and placed in a "for use" bin to ensure its availability. I can understand the parts issue on a normal repair service when it may not be known what parts and pieces are needed up front but this was a factory service. Theoretically, my appointment was next in line so that part would not have been needed for anyone else. The main irritating factor here is that I didn't get a phone call until very late in the day the service was promised. Apparently the dealership does not "pre-service" (which means getting parts together prior to the tech working on the vehicle.

Judging by customer comments on this dealership it is much more than an "occasional upset customer".

BRP's corporate response was completely idiotic as well so the lack of customer support goes right to the top. Never again BRP. Never again.

 

[RDM]

Same issue with Ride Now

Delivered a brand new machine after "test ride" with wheels way out of balance. Then next day they wanted to charge me to balance. After shouting match with service manager and telling me all Spyder have vibrations (this is my third Spyder) he agreed to balance wheels. Close but no cigar. Finally changed Kenda tires and now smooth as silk. Also had Ride Now do a $150 laser alignment because things were pretty squirrely but was not right after picking it up. After becoming frustrated with bad service I took the Spyder to the inventor of the Rolo system and found the bike to be out of alignment 1-1/2" and there were no wrench marks on the front end adjustment bars which leads me to believe that Ride Now didn't even touch the front end or they just don't know how to use the system. Also went into limp mode after laser alignment two blocks from dealer which leads me to believe they didn't take it for a test ride after alignment. They had to do a BUDS fix with computer. On previous service visits with my former Spyder they had common parts issues also. So, bottom line they have lost a good customer. Also delivered new Spyder without second key which was supposed to be in frunk. They couldn't find it so they gave me a blank and sent me to a locksmith they use. No charge but just inconvenience.

 

[jcthorne]

Delivered a brand new machine after "test ride" with wheels way out of balance. Then next day they wanted to charge me to balance. After shouting match with service manager and telling me all Spyder have vibrations (this is my third Spyder) he agreed to balance wheels. Close but no cigar. Finally changed Kenda tires and now smooth as silk. Also had Ride Now do a $150 laser alignment because things were pretty squirrely but was not right after picking it up. After becoming frustrated with bad service I took the Spyder to the inventor of the Rolo system and found the bike to be out of alignment 1-1/2" and there were no wrench marks on the front end adjustment bars which leads me to believe that Ride Now didn't even touch the front end or they just don't know how to use the system. Also went into limp mode after laser alignment two blocks from dealer which leads me to believe they didn't take it for a test ride after alignment. They had to do a BUDS fix with computer. On previous service visits with my former Spyder they had common parts issues also. So, bottom line they have lost a good customer. Also delivered new Spyder without second key which was supposed to be in frunk. They couldn't find it so they gave me a blank and sent me to a locksmith they use. No charge but just inconvenience.

After the key is cut, it has to be programmed to the bike using BUDS.

 

[UtahPete]

I think dealership service, or lack thereof, is probably Spyder's Achilles heel and the reason for its limited appeal in the marketplace.

It's a bit of a conundrum; as long as their annual sales numbers remain as low as they are, BRP and its dealers lack the financial incentive to make further investments in inventory and tech training just for Spyders, when most of their sales and profits come from ATV's, PWCs and the like.

And, nobody thinks of BRP as a motorcycle company.

 

[RinconRyder]

I think dealership service, or lack thereof, is probably Spyder's Achilles heel and the reason for its limited appeal in the marketplace.

I basically agree with you but with at least one additional reason - price. These are VERY expensive machines right up there with the big Hardleys and UJM tourers. Both these other genres have large and dedicated followings. Can Am does not.

It's a bit of a conundrum; as long as their annual sales numbers remain as low as they are, BRP and its dealers lack the financial incentive to make further investments in inventory and tech training just for Spyders, when most of their sales and profits come from ATV's, PWCs and the like.

You hit this one on the head. As I sat outside the dealer's shop awaiting delivery of my trike I noticed the overwhelming number of off-road vehicles coming and going.

And, nobody thinks of BRP as a motorcycle company.

True as well although the Can Am brand is probably the more recognized than BRP down here in the SW USA.

 

[UtahPete]

I basically agree with you but with at least one additional reason - price. These are VERY expensive machines right up there with the big Hardleys and UJM tourers. Both these other genres have large and dedicated followings. Can Am does not.

You hit this one on the head. As I sat outside the dealer's shop awaiting delivery of my trike I noticed the overwhelming number of off-road vehicles coming and going.

True as well although the Can Am brand is probably the more recognized than BRP down here in the SW USA.

I think the big difference is that the dealers aren't also selling and servicing ATV's, snowmobiles and PWCs.

I meant Can-Am, sorry. Polaris isn't any more recognized as a motorcycle company, which is why they bought the iconic Indian brand I suppose. No question that is a motorcycle. But, what is a 'Victory' or a 'Spyder'?

 

[ARtraveler]

I am thinking that both of you have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The off roading 4 wheelers are definitely more plentiful than the Spyder.

Spyder is currently not a mainline brand but is fighting similar to what Victory was trying to pull off and become the new HD.

I don't know if there has been a surge in sales--but I am thinking they are still plunking along at about 10K a year or less. Many customers are now plunking along with their third or forth machine. Don't know about that many "new" to the brand customers. Hopefully the new sub $10K may get a fire going.

If Spyder does not become a big moneymaker, the future could be short.

Will have to see what happens to Indian, now that Victory is gone.

Service has been an ongoing issue since day one. I have been lucky--but not everyone can say that.

 

[spyderCodes]

The guy who oversaw the building of the sales & service nretwork in the United States and ran Volkswagen, Heinz Nordoff, in the early fifties demanded that every dealership be able to make an entire Volkswagen from their local parts inventory.

There is a record that two dealeships lost their franchises for a period of time because they were missing some parts.

Yes, that was a bygone era but it seems with our ability to track and ship overnight anywhere in North America, parts availabilty should never be an issue.

 

[RinconRyder]

... but it seems with our ability to track and ship overnight anywhere in North America, parts availabilty should never be an issue.

Just in case there are some folks who are thinking this is was just an inventory issue let me clear this up.

My experience was a human flaw, not just an inventory parts problem. I made an appointment 9 days in advance where a specific part was to be changed out. The dealer's inventory system should be able to scan the service order and realize a specific part was required and either reserve that part or order new inventory (ideally, both so that the next Spyder repair of the same type didn't get shorted). And even where their logistics system didn't have this capability the service writer should have been able to reserve or order the part in question and ensure it was in stock.

I was developing logistics systems for semiconductor companies 30 years ago that had this capability. There is no excuse for it not to exist now.

But that's not all.

There were missing common sense issues: Even though the dealer knew they didn't have the part in question they didn't notify me until very late in the day that the service could not be completed. And the next day I did not hear from them at all - I had to call them to determine the status. This I pin on the dealer and this is the major problem with their service center.

But that still isn't all...

When I reported up the chain to the corporate parent I got a milquetoast reply that clearly said they not only didn't understand my complaint but there was nothing they could do about it.

My experience is but one out of many I have heard about and isn't the most serious one. It does however illustrate that a common and significantly occurring issue with BRP's dealers isn't fixed and apparently isn't going to be. Recognize that before you buy a BRP product.

 

[UtahPete]

Just in case there are some folks who are thinking this is was just an inventory issue let me clear this up.

My experience was a human flaw, not just an inventory parts problem. I made an appointment 9 days in advance where a specific part was to be changed out. The dealer's inventory system should be able to scan the service order and realize a specific part was required and either reserve that part or order new inventory (ideally, both so that the next Spyder repair of the same type didn't get shorted). And even where their logistics system didn't have this capability the service writer should have been able to reserve or order the part in question and ensure it was in stock.

I was developing logistics systems for semiconductor companies 30 years ago that had this capability. There is no excuse for it not to exist now.

But that's not all.

There were missing common sense issues: Even though the dealer knew they didn't have the part in question they didn't notify me until very late in the day that the service could not be completed. And the next day I did not hear from them at all - I had to call them to determine the status. This I pin on the dealer and this is the major problem with their service center.

But that still isn't all...

When I reported up the chain to the corporate parent I got a milquetoast reply that clearly said they not only didn't understand my complaint but there was nothing they could do about it.

My experience is but one out of many I have heard about and isn't the most serious one. It does however illustrate that a common and significantly occurring issue with BRP's dealers isn't fixed and apparently isn't going to be. Recognize that before you buy a BRP product.

Fully integrated inventory, purchasing and repair order software is available for small business and has been for some time. The problem is two-fold; they would rather spend their money on things that (in their mind anyway) help them make money. Accounting and logistics support are the last items to be budgeted for. The other is that the level of competence and sophistication needed by staff to fully implement and use such software is usually lacking at many small businesses (even very large 'small business' like this dealership network).

When I decided to head off on my own to do consulting back in the '80s, I was referred by a bank to a manufacturer of grape harvesters and scissor lifts in the central valley of California. The CFO was getting frustrated, having spent a very large sum on IBM's MAPICS software, that he couldn't get any reliable information from it and it never reconciled to the financial reports he was getting from his Controller at the plant. After a week of investigating at the plant, I discovered that the employees in the plant had little or no training on using job tickets, and they had no incentive to maintain the data inputs to MAPICS, since their performance reviews and bonuses had everything to do with productivity and quality control, not on cost controls or any other measure of financial accountability the MAPICS was designed for. As a result, the reporting of labor and materials input to W-I-P was spotty at best, rendering the inventory and cost of goods manufactured numbers to be completely meaningless.

The fault in all these cases I worked on was always that of management creating the wrong (or no) incentives for employees to adopt new technology.

 

[RinconRyder]

The fault in all these cases I worked on was always that of management creating the wrong (or no) incentives for employees to adopt new technology.

I remember MAPICS but, thankfully, never had to deal with it as a developer.

Your comment is right on but there is one other major cause I have seen first hand as well and that is to get corporate money for major software it is usually necessary to roll the "request train" through every major department. Along with their long lists of functionality they participate in the funding of the new system. The problem is this tends to make bosum buddies of business functions that don't necessarily belong together. This breeds development delays, disparate functionality, too much user complexity and, by the time the software is ready the business world has changed and the developed system no longer meets the corporate needs. End user departments tend to bail out when this occurs and then you have little software fiefdoms popping up all over the place. The advent of the personal computer made this scenario much worse than when most departments were coaxed to the Big Iron.

Back in the early 80's my wife operated a very small crafts type business. I bought one of the earliest PC's and a small inventory package and over time added billing, replenishment, shipping and inventory/revenue reporting to it. It was on a dual-floppy system so you know the app had to be very small. This little system could be the model for my dealership - it was that simple - but obviously they have other priorities.

Too bad there is no "magic app" to tell them of sales or service opportunities missed because of mistakes like the one I had.

 

[canamjhb]

I think the common complaint in this thread about lack of service and support is correct. I have owned 2 other BRP product, an Outlander and a Commander. I found the dealer service for these to be just as inadequate as it is for the Spyder. Same dealerships, same problems. What was different was there was a good aftermarket bunch of independent shops to go to. Most times better service and most time less expensive. The Spyder, on the other hand, is the "ugly red headed step child with special needs". (Nothing against red heads). No independent shop I can find will even look at a Spyder. And the dealers would just as soon not see us coming. To quote a service manager here in Mesa, "I know we are a dealer for these, but I hate these things". I fear our Spyders will not survive unless a good competent service network is established. So far, so bad. Trying to get issues resolved only results in a finger pointing contest between dealers and BRP. The OP was correct. Not a good way to run a business......