Could not get 175/55r15 Kumho KH16 to seat on 15" rim

[sledmaster]

The tire was acting like the inside diameter was too small. It would hold pressure, but the I.D. of the tire would not pop all the way up and seat properly onto the rim, despite our repeated and forceful efforts. So the trick of using a ratchet strap like what we do with a wide mower tire to get it to take air wasn't the solution. The tire carcass seemed to be much more stiff than any other spyder tire we have used previously. Thus I was seeking input from those who had specific experience with this exact size to make sure it had been done before we tried to force a mismatch. It didn't make sense, so I wanted to ask before doing something stupid.

Some of the different rear tires we have mounted have been kind of funky, despite being the exact same size as the one coming off. Remember, we are motorcycle and snowmobile mechanics that do not have tons of experience with car tires so we proceed with caution when we run into things that are outside of our zone of expertise! Better to ask of those here who have travelled down the path before than to just keep hitting it with an even bigger hammer! The knowledge and insight from all of you is most appreciated.

 

[dukeBlue48]

Tires vs bearing londs and wear

Has any one running the over sized or off set tires noticed an in crease in either bearing wear and or service.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Given that info ^^ sledmaster, I'd be tempted to check the physical dimensions of that tire against a tire that you know has fitted on those rims before?! Could you measure the I.D. of the tire that came off, & compare it to the tire that's (not?) going on?? Sure, there may be a tiny difference due to one having stretched a little during it's fitted life vs the never fitted tire, but it shouldn't be more than a couple of mm at most!! So any significant difference in I.D. might give you a reason for this one not going on. As for sidewall stiffness, any car tire sidewall will be a little stiffer than the Kenda's; the car tire will have 2 sidewall plies (mandated, plus the 4tread plies & substantial bead plies to form & maintain the bead profile) while the Kenda's only have 1 ply in their sidewalls, 2 in the tread & minimal bead plies. Btw, the Kenda plies I measured when 'de-constructing' one of their Spyder tires were only 30 denier rather than the stronger 60 denier or better usually found in car tires, but while being thin & patchy, the tire itself was still constructed the same way as car tires are, effectively making the Kenda's just a poor quality lightweight car tire. So the Kenda's are going to have 'softer & more pliable' sidewalls, but the rim & bead profile is identical to that mandated for cars, so fitting a car tire shouldn't be an issue?!

When it comes to brand differences, I am running Kumho Solus tires up front, but mine are 175/60R15's & KH17's, so there could be minor differences there. But still, it was easy enough to fit them, no issues at all (& my gear is mainly man-draulic & I'm no longer as strong as I used to be!) so I reckon there hasta be something different (possibly wrong?) about the particular tire you are having issues with. Maybe the sidewall thickness is a little greater than spec, or there's a misplaced bead ply underneath the rubber. Could it possibly even be a different sized tire incorrectly labelled??? That sort of thing does happen sometimes, altho usually extremely rarely these days, & besides, the quality control at Kumho is far greater than it is at Kenda, so it wouldn't be something you'd expect!!

Thinking on this further, & certainly not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but a long time ago I had trouble manually fitting 'All-Steel' specialist off-road tires onto a safety rim, with much the same issue as you are describing. They had virtually inflexible sidewalls!! When fitting the bead over the rim edge, eventually I noticed that the bead seal rubber sat on the belly of the rim sorta half folded under, so that when I tried to seat the bead, it just moved the seal rubber out in that same 'incorrect attitude' & didn't seem to want to 'lift' the bead into a proper & snug fit with the rim edge. I tried everything I could think of, until it dawned on me that while using the ratchet strap & pulling it really tight, the offending bead could be forced into the right 'attitude' to match the rim profile before adding any air - so that then by explosively releasing air into the tire, it could force the already aligned bead onto the rim bead seat properly. And it worked!! I hadta simultaneously dump the maximum pressure/volume of two other (already mounted) tires into the tire I was fitting (I used a twin filler hose much like the accessory used to match Spyder front tire pressures exactly!) so it was the volume of two tires up at about 160 psi being dumped in while the bead was already in the right attitude & being forced out pretty hard by the ratchet strap, but it worked!!

So maybe you might need to resort to the same sort of tactics? I'm pretty sure the 'never exceed even while seating the bead' pressure on the Kumho's will probably be somewhat higher than 50psi (it'd be in their fitting specs tho) & you might need to set up the ratchet strap very carefully & tightly first, making sure that the bead is aligned correctly with the way you want it to end up on the rim before tightening it down; then dump as much air at pressure into the tire as you can at once!! There are few other helpful things that come to mind, but maybe checking that there's no obstruction in the internal dia of the valve stem is worth a shot?! Mass produced Rubber stems in particular have been known to sometimes have moulding defects that mean they end up with a smaller dia outlet inside the tire, so the necessary volume of air to properly seat the bead is somewhat restricted, or at least the flow is limited so the bead doesn't get that sudden 'shot' of HP air. There again, maybe that Bead-Zooka is the way to go?? :shocked:

Over to you, hope something works. My Kumho's have been great, well worth the change! :thumbup:

Ps: dukeBlue48, for my part, the wear & tear on everything has been noticeably LESS; possibly because I run my tires at slightly less pressure to get better ride, traction, & handling than the Kenda's provided (stronger/larger tires need less air to carry the same load)

 

[Richardv]

Just for you. BOB.... !!!

185/50?? :shocked:
That's about the widest tire that I've heard of anyone using up front.
How does it fit under the fenders? :dontknow:

It's too bad that you couldn't get us a picture of them; I'll bet that it looks awesome!

View attachment 136368

Here is some pis of my Kumho Solus 175/55R15 on my ST:





Adhesion is excellent. At first it feel just like to direct of a steering response..... but you get use to it very soon....:roflblack::clap:

Richard

P.S. how do I rotate them? ( the picture, not the tires �&#56832

 

[Richardv]

Kumho front pressure

Given that info ^^ sledmaster, I'd be tempted to check the physical dimensions of that tire against a tire that you know has fitted on those rims before?! Could you measure the I.D. of the tire that came off, & compare it to the tire that's (not?) going on?? Sure, there may be a tiny difference due to one having stretched a little during it's fitted life vs the never fitted tire, but it shouldn't be more than a couple of mm at most!! So any significant difference in I.D. might give you a reason for this one not going on. As for sidewall stiffness, any car tire sidewall will be a little stiffer than the Kenda's; the car tire will have 2 sidewall plies (mandated, plus the 4tread plies & substantial bead plies to form & maintain the bead profile) while the Kenda's only have 1 ply in their sidewalls, 2 in the tread & minimal bead plies. Btw, the Kenda plies I measured when 'de-constructing' one of their Spyder tires were only 30 denier rather than the stronger 60 denier or better usually found in car tires, but while being thin & patchy, the tire itself was still constructed the same way as car tires are, effectively making the Kenda's just a poor quality lightweight car tire. So the Kenda's are going to have 'softer & more pliable' sidewalls, but the rim & bead profile is identical to that mandated for cars, so fitting a car tire shouldn't be an issue?!

When it comes to brand differences, I am running Kumho Solus tires up front, but mine are 175/60R15's & KH17's, so there could be minor differences there. But still, it was easy enough to fit them, no issues at all (& my gear is mainly man-draulic & I'm no longer as strong as I used to be!) so I reckon there hasta be something different (possibly wrong?) about the particular tire you are having issues with. Maybe the sidewall thickness is a little greater than spec, or there's a misplaced bead ply underneath the rubber. Could it possibly even be a different sized tire incorrectly labelled??? That sort of thing does happen sometimes, altho usually extremely rarely these days, & besides, the quality control at Kumho is far greater than it is at Kenda, so it wouldn't be something you'd expect!!

Thinking on this further, & certainly not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but a long time ago I had trouble manually fitting 'All-Steel' specialist off-road tires onto a safety rim, with much the same issue as you are describing. They had virtually inflexible sidewalls!! When fitting the bead over the rim edge, eventually I noticed that the bead seal rubber sat on the belly of the rim sorta half folded under, so that when I tried to seat the bead, it just moved the seal rubber out in that same 'incorrect attitude' & didn't seem to want to 'lift' the bead into a proper & snug fit with the rim edge. I tried everything I could think of, until it dawned on me that while using the ratchet strap & pulling it really tight, the offending bead could be forced into the right 'attitude' to match the rim profile before adding any air - so that then by explosively releasing air into the tire, it could force the already aligned bead onto the rim bead seat properly. And it worked!! I hadta simultaneously dump the maximum pressure/volume of two other (already mounted) tires into the tire I was fitting (I used a twin filler hose much like the accessory used to match Spyder front tire pressures exactly!) so it was the volume of two tires up at about 160 psi being dumped in while the bead was already in the right attitude & being forced out pretty hard by the ratchet strap, but it worked!!

So maybe you might need to resort to the same sort of tactics? I'm pretty sure the 'never exceed even while seating the bead' pressure on the Kumho's will probably be somewhat higher than 50psi (it'd be in their fitting specs tho) & you might need to set up the ratchet strap very carefully & tightly first, making sure that the bead is aligned correctly with the way you want it to end up on the rim before tightening it down; then dump as much air at pressure into the tire as you can at once!! There are few other helpful things that come to mind, but maybe checking that there's no obstruction in the internal dia of the valve stem is worth a shot?! Mass produced Rubber stems in particular have been known to sometimes have moulding defects that mean they end up with a smaller dia outlet inside the tire, so the necessary volume of air to properly seat the bead is somewhat restricted, or at least the flow is limited so the bead doesn't get that sudden 'shot' of HP air. There again, maybe that Bead-Zooka is the way to go?? :shocked:

Over to you, hope something works. My Kumho's have been great, well worth the change! :thumbup:

Ps: dukeBlue48, for my part, the wear & tear on everything has been noticeably LESS; possibly because I run my tires at slightly less pressure to get better ride, traction, & handling than the Kenda's provided (stronger/larger tires need less air to carry the same load)

Running ours at 19.5psi on the street side and 20psi on sidewalk side. (road center and road low side)
Sticking to the road like crazy but still very comfortable.... :yes:

 

[AeroPilot]

That 185/55 sure does fill up the fender flare..

WHOOPS! Just noticed from the text, the pics are of your 175/55's!. I like the look of the grooves on those Solus' although we only have the 155/60R15 mounted on the wifes 15RT-S. I remember having a little rubbing with one side on the wire going up the fender strut when we had some Michelins on the 2011 RT. You might want to swivel the plastic wiring clips as seen on the 4th pic so that you don't get wear through on those wires, but hard to see for sure. I noticed them rubbing by the whirring noise on my test ride. Thanks for the pics!!!

 

[dukeBlue48]

Ctrl and Alt plus arrow to what ever direction you want

Here is some pis of my Kumho Solus 175/55R15 on my ST:

View attachment 136396View attachment 136397View attachment 136398View attachment 136399



Adhesion is excellent. At first it feel just like to direct of a steering response..... but you get use to it very soon....:roflblack::clap:

Richard

P.S. how do I rotate them? ( the picture, not the tires �&#56832

Try: Ctrl and Alt and any arrow key to change the direction

 

[sledmaster]

Tires are Mounted!

Wow, that was a good one. Put the tires in the sun for a couple hours, one went right on, but of course the other one was still not willing to seat all the way. Well, we left the 50 psi in there and rolled it back out into the sun and left it there. Couple hours later, POP up she went. All by itself. Well, the combination of 50 psi and hot sun was enough, along with excessive amounts of lube, and a little bit of swearing along the way.

Mounted them with the color dots aligned to the valve, boy did they balance up nicely. Thank you to all who chimed in on this one. I will follow up with a report on how the 175/55r15 Kumho Solus KH16 compares to my 155/60r15 Kumho Solus KH 16s that have about 20,000 on them (bald on the inner edges). It looks like I gained almost an inch in width, so it will be curious to feel what, if any difference, there is. It was such an improvement to go to the Kumhos from the stock kendas it was stupid good, I can only hope it gets even better. Cheers!:yes:

 

[Bob Denman]

:clap: :congrats: :2thumbs:

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together?

 

[sledmaster]

Hell ya, and I just love it that we have a group here that we can share info and ideas with to better understand and appreciate the Spyder. It is after all, a shared passion among all of us. :cheers:

 

[Michaelscs]

Congrats on the successful mount! please keep us updated on how you like the new set-up.
I can't wait to hear!
What about the Kumho did you like better than the Continental? You said you weren't to excited about the Continental.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

BALD INNER EDGES

Wow, that was a good one. Put the tires in the sun for a couple hours, one went right on, but of course the other one was still not willing to seat all the way. Well, we left the 50 psi in there and rolled it back out into the sun and left it there. Couple hours later, POP up she went. All by itself. Well, the combination of 50 psi and hot sun was enough, along with excessive amounts of lube, and a little bit of swearing along the way.

Mounted them with the color dots aligned to the valve, boy did they balance up nicely. Thank you to all who chimed in on this one. I will follow up with a report on how the 175/55r15 Kumho Solus KH16 compares to my 155/60r15 Kumho Solus KH 16s that have about 20,000 on them (bald on the inner edges). It looks like I gained almost an inch in width, so it will be curious to feel what, if any difference, there is. It was such an improvement to go to the Kumhos from the stock kendas it was stupid good, I can only hope it gets even better. Cheers!:yes:

Have you ever had you Spyder " Lazer " aligned ??? .... inner tire wear indicates mis-alignment ............. Also what style fenders do you have now .......Mike :thumbup:

 

[sledmaster]

Yes Mike. once we noticed the wear on the inner edges we took it to Caswell Cycle and got it laser aligned, but what we found did not explain the wear pattern. That said, the Spyder then handled incredibly well, could not believe the difference, I thought it worked well beforehand, was surprised at the difference. Now that it is aligned I pretty much burned the rest of the rubber off the 155s and am now installing the 175s, onto a new set of wheels.

 

[sledmaster]

Mostly the tread pattern was what I didn't like as well. I had that tire on a couple of Subaru Outbacks and it wore well but didn't hook up all that good, so I opted for the Kumho KH16. With 20,000 miles on a set of Kumho KH16s but in the 155 width I know they work. We are so very limited in 15" front tire options, there is another Kumho tread pattern and a Bridgestone I would also like to try. That was why I got an extra set of wheels so I could swap them around and see what works better. It's part of my nature.....

Congrats on the successful mount! please keep us updated on how you like the new set-up.
I can't wait to hear!
What about the Kumho did you like better than the Continental? You said you weren't to excited about the Continental.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

GENERAL ALTIMAX RT43

Mostly the tread pattern was what I didn't like as well. I had that tire on a couple of Subaru Outbacks and it wore well but didn't hook up all that good, so I opted for the Kumho KH16. With 20,000 miles on a set of Kumho KH16s but in the 155 width I know they work. We are so very limited in 15" front tire options, there is another Kumho tread pattern and a Bridgestone I would also like to try. That was why I got an extra set of wheels so I could swap them around and see what works better. It's part of my nature.....

.. This tire has such good performance numbers I'm going to be the TEST MULE and try a 175/65-15 on my 2014 RT soon ..........this is their smallest tire that might fit ....I have the basic fenders that I have already radiused 1/2 inchfrom the inside edge .... I did this for ease of tire removal........Mike :thumbup:

 

[Deanna777]

.. This tire has such good performance numbers I'm going to be the TEST MULE and try a 175/65-15 on my 2014 RT soon ..........this is their smallest tire that might fit ....I have the basic fenders that I have already radiused 1/2 inchfrom the inside edge .... I did this for ease of tire removal........Mike :thumbup:

Keep us posted!
Deanna

 

[sledmaster]

175/55r15 fits nicely into front fenders

OK so I mounted the new wheels and bigger tires into my 2013 ST-S, which has the new style fenders. The larger 175/55r15 tires and wheels went right in, totally effortless, fit perfectly. I did put a shop towel around the brake caliper to prevent any contact with the inner portion of the wheel, but the wheel and tire went right in super easy. I did as Richardv had suggested, started by inserting the wheel from the mud flap towards the top of the fender, but it was super easy.

Same Kumho Solus KH16s, now in the 175/55r15 instead of 155/60r15. The 155s just didn't fill out the fenders, they looked narrow. The 175s look really nice, completely filling out the fenders.

Now for the curious part. It definitely changed the feel of the machine. It is more stable, more planted, tracks very nicely, the front end is more settled, more confident, BUT....

Don't get me wrong, I love the way it feels and handles and acts, but I was somewhat surprised at the difference. It is not as playful, not as agile, maybe not as quick to respond, the front end almost feels heavier, and it actually feels like I am accelerating more mass. To that end, each tire is two pounds heavier than the 155s I took off, and since this is rotating mass that is quite a ways from the center of rotation, it acts like 7 pounds more weight for each pound of rotating mass that is added. Using that formula I just added 28 pounds......effectively. I guess I need more power than what the 991 is giving me! The 990 in my 2008 GS is so much stronger!

So I would highly suggest anyone with the new style fenders looking for a higher quality, higher load rating, longer life 15" front tire to look into a 175/55r15 tire. The Kumho KH 16 does have a "AA" traction rating and a "A" temperature rating, treadwear is 440. Few tires available in this size, the Continental Contiprocontact is also "AA" traction and "A" temperature with a 400 treadwear rating so it should also perform well. There is also a Hankook Ventus V4 that I would like to try, but the Kumhos should last me for a couple years now the way I ride. I might just mount a set of Hankooks to the wheels I have the 155s on.....

 

[KX5062]

I'm not ready for front tires yet, but I was poking around the web and it appears that the KH16 is no longer available in the 175/55r 15 size. Unless I'm missing it from the Kumho website itself.

http://www.kumhousa.com/tire/category/car/5AAB7642-6120-4AC6-83D7-4270BC9ECBF2

 

[BajaRon]

Wow, that was a good one. Put the tires in the sun for a couple hours, one went right on, but of course the other one was still not willing to seat all the way. Well, we left the 50 psi in there and rolled it back out into the sun and left it there. Couple hours later, POP up she went. All by itself. Well, the combination of 50 psi and hot sun was enough, along with excessive amounts of lube, and a little bit of swearing along the way.

Mounted them with the color dots aligned to the valve, boy did they balance up nicely. Thank you to all who chimed in on this one. I will follow up with a report on how the 175/55r15 Kumho Solus KH16 compares to my 155/60r15 Kumho Solus KH 16s that have about 20,000 on them (bald on the inner edges). It looks like I gained almost an inch in width, so it will be curious to feel what, if any difference, there is. It was such an improvement to go to the Kumhos from the stock kendas it was stupid good, I can only hope it gets even better. Cheers!:yes:

Did you check air pressure after the seating process was done? I would think, sitting in the sun, that the pressure was higher than 50 lbs.

But congratulations on overcoming this problem! :thumbup:

 

[Richardv]

Agree with you...

OK so I mounted the new wheels and bigger tires into my 2013 ST-S, which has the new style fenders. The larger 175/55r15 tires and wheels went right in, totally effortless, fit perfectly. I did put a shop towel around the brake caliper to prevent any contact with the inner portion of the wheel, but the wheel and tire went right in super easy. I did as Richardv had suggested, started by inserting the wheel from the mud flap towards the top of the fender, but it was super easy.

Same Kumho Solus KH16s, now in the 175/55r15 instead of 155/60r15. The 155s just didn't fill out the fenders, they looked narrow. The 175s look really nice, completely filling out the fenders.

Now for the curious part. It definitely changed the feel of the machine. It is more stable, more planted, tracks very nicely, the front end is more settled, more confident, BUT....

Don't get me wrong, I love the way it feels and handles and acts, but I was somewhat surprised at the difference. It is not as playful, not as agile, maybe not as quick to respond, the front end almost feels heavier, and it actually feels like I am accelerating more mass. To that end, each tire is two pounds heavier than the 155s I took off, and since this is rotating mass that is quite a ways from the center of rotation, it acts like 7 pounds more weight for each pound of rotating mass that is added. Using that formula I just added 28 pounds......effectively. I guess I need more power than what the 991 is giving me! The 990 in my 2008 GS is so much stronger!

So I would highly suggest anyone with the new style fenders looking for a higher quality, higher load rating, longer life 15" front tire to look into a 175/55r15 tire. The Kumho KH 16 does have a "AA" traction rating and a "A" temperature rating, treadwear is 440. Few tires available in this size, the Continental Contiprocontact is also "AA" traction and "A" temperature with a 400 treadwear rating so it should also perform well. There is also a Hankook Ventus V4 that I would like to try, but the Kumhos should last me for a couple years now the way I ride. I might just mount a set of Hankooks to the wheels I have the 155s on.....

...that it does feel a little bit "heavier". But, on the other hand, it stick so muck to the road, that I am in desperate need of a Bayaron sway bar. I can feel in every curve that the bike wants to go out of the curve, but the tires keep it on its radius..... funny feeling, kind of like if the sway bar would not be there any more.....

I also experimented up to 25psi in the front tires, but that doesn't help. Just banging harder in the holes and ditches. Went down to 16psi, but finally settled at 19.5psi road side and 20psi curb side. Goes straight as an arrow on back roads.... ;-)

P.S. insisting to get the color dot in line with the valve really helps to balance perfectly.... they balanced with less than an ounce each. Also my 3 rear tires Kumho AST 225/50R15 didn't seemed to need to be balanced, so, just in case, I added 3oz of beads in them.