Headlight modulator

[ElkSpyder]

Ok, so if my HID lights can't be modulated, can we do it to the none HID "fog lights"??

 

[Questions]

Ok, so if my HID lights can't be modulated, can we do it to the none HID "fog lights"??

Technically, by Federal Law, no..... but I doubt you'll ever get stopped and have to defend the use of your driving lights. You may get stopped by uninformed officers (this applies to any and all states) that will question your modulating headlights. Always carry a copy of the law with you... which doesn't always work if the officer is a jerk and won't listen. I had that happen in NM (where I live) in 2001 when they were fairly new (modulating headlights). A state patrol jerk refused to read the law I had with me and wanted to make a federal case out of it. I got AMA involved and with a few letters to the state attorney general and the head of the state police, they issued an official declaration stating they didn't have time to enforce that law and all officers were supposed to leave motorcycles alone that had mod headlights... they wouldn't officially back down, even though the federal law specifically forbids any state from enacting a law that would negate the federal law. I haven't been bothered since. ON a couple trips many years ago I got stopped a couple times, but the officers listened to reason and sent me on my way. In my home town I was stopped by a city cop and after listening to reason, agreed he can't do anything about them, but asked me politely if I'd turn them off in town. Can you believe that? I told him, "NO, I won't." He bade me a good-day.

 

[Questions]

That would present an interesting presence. The HID lights on with the "fog lights" being modulated below them. It would definitely look to be different from the surroundings and even other cars or bikes equipped with modulators. I guess the legal question would be, can auxiliary lights be modulated while running running the headlights steady?

:chat: What say everybody? :chat:

I just answered the question in the last post... no it isn't legal.

 

[dave01]

Modulating lights legal in all 50 states

[FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0]

In the​

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[/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0]United States[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0], [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0]FMVSS 108 [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0](Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) ([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0]49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0]) alows motorcycle headlamp[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=T3Font_0][FONT=T3Font_0] [/FONT][/FONT]This Federal law supersedes all state laws and makes motorcycle headlight modulators legal in all 50 states. FMVSS 108​

(Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) (49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4) allows motorcycle headlight modulation systems ​

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all 50
states provided they comply with the standards set forth in this section. Title 49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state
from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108. Click here to see the regulation.​

Code of Federal Regulation​

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- Title 49, Volume 5, Parts 400 to 999 - Revised as of October 1, 2000
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 49CFR571.108] [Page 236-307]
TITLE 49: TRANSPORTATION - CHAPTER V, NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION
PART 571, FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS - Subpart B--Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards - Sec.
571.108 Standard No. 108;​

Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment - S7.9.4 Motorcycle headlamp modulation system.​

S7.9.4.1 A headlamp on a motorcycle may be wired to modulate either the upper beam or the lower beam from its maximum intensity to a
lesser intensity, provided that:
(a) The rate of modulation shall be 240 <plus-minus> 40 cycles per minute.
(b) The headlamp shall be operated at maximum power for 50 to 70 percent of each cycle.
(c) The lowest intensity at any test point shall be not less than 17 percent of the maximum intensity measured at the same point.
(d) The modulator switch shall be wired in the power lead of the beam filament being modulated and not in the ground side of the circuit.
(e) Means shall be provided so that both the lower beam and upper beam remain operable in the event of a modulator failure.
(f) The system shall include a sensor mounted with the axis of its sensing element perpendicular to a horizontal plane. Headlamp
modulation shall cease whenever the level of light emitted by a tungsten filament light operating at 3000 deg. Kelvin is either less than 270
lux (25 foot-candles) of direct light for upward pointing sensors or less than 60 lux (5.6 foot-candles) of reflected light for downward
pointing sensors. The light is measured by a silicon cell type light meter that is located at the sensor and pointing in the same direction as
the sensor. A Kodak Gray Card (Kodak R-27) is placed at ground level to simulate the road surface in testing downward pointing sensors.
(g) When tested in accordance with the test profile shown in Figure 9, the voltage drop across the modulator when the lamp is on at all
test conditions for 12 volt systems and 6 volt systems shall not be greater than .45 volt. The modulator shall meet all the provisions of the
standard after completion of the test profile shown in Figure 9.
(h) Means shall be provided so that both the lower and upper beam function at design voltage when the headlamp control switch is in
either the lower or upper beam position when the modulator is off.
S7.9.4.2(a) Each motorcycle headlamp modulator not intended as original equipment, or its container, shall be labeled with the maximum
wattage, and the minimum wattage appropriate for its use. Additionally, each such modulator shall comply with S7.9.4.1 (a) through (g)
when connected to a headlamp of the maximum rated power and a headlamp of the minimum rated power, and shall provide means so
that the modulated beam functions at design voltage when the modulator is off.
(b) Instructions, with a diagram, shall be provided for mounting the light sensor including location on the motorcycle, distance above the
road surface, and orientation with respect to the light.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

The 2007 Florida Statutes​

Title XXIII​

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MOTOR VEHICLES Chapter 316 STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL​

316.405 Motorcycle headlights to be turned on.--​

(1) Any person who operates a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle on the public streets or highways
shall, while so engaged, have the headlight or headlights of such motorcycle or motor-driven cycle
turned on. Failure to comply with this section during the hours from sunrise to sunset, unless
compliance is otherwise required by law, shall not be admissible as evidence of negligence in a civil
action.​

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During the hours of operation between sunrise and sunset, the headlights may modulate either
the upper beam or the lower beam from its maximum intensity to a lower intensity, in accordance with
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 571.108.​

(2) Failure to comply with the provisions of this section shall not be deemed negligence per se in any
civil action, but the violation of this section may be considered on the issue of negligence if the violation
of this section is a proximate cause of a crash.
(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as​

provided in chapter 318.

 

[Firefly]

When GM started putting DRLs (daytime running lamps) on cars, everybody thought that was a good idea (until everyone did it, then people wouldn't see them anymore). That proved to be a farce. You still notice cars with DRLs on them in low-light situations (dark car on a dark highway at dusk... even a dark car on a dark highway in the daylight). When you pull out pass, you can see the cars coming with the DRLs on... the rest you can't see. So, in reply to "they are a good idea until everyone starts running them" is absurd. In fact, when everyone starts running them, they'll still be more noticeable than DRLs because of the perceived "motion" that the "other guy" sees. You'll always see modulating high-beam headlights. (and high beam is the only light you should modulate for obvious reasons). As far as HID vs modulating headlights, if you had to make a choice, you may feel safer riding after dark in a deer-infested area because you can see better at night. It's a personal choice. I feel the standard lights light up the road sufficiently for night driving and the rest of the time, modulating lights protect me from the other guy. After all, statistics show us that t-boning a car at an intersection is the main cause of motorcycle crashes... not deer/bike accidents.

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying pertaining to DLR's-- my point was that if EVERYONE ran them--- they no longer have a unique impact and therefore you won't stick out any more than the next guy. I wasn't comparing them to modulating ones-- although if everyone ran those I the same would apply. You can only stand out more than the other guy if you're running something different. I don't see many modulating lights out there-- so you probably do stick out much more than usual.

Why is the high beam the only one you modulate?

You might think the stock Spyder lights up pretty well--- until you ryde one with HID's--- (I now have 4). The difference is nothing short of amazing.

I think next I'll mount a disco-ball and laser lights on my Spyder....... :roflblack:

 

[Bozzzz]

I just got the first Kisan Technologies Headlight modulator made specifically for the Spyder... total plug-n-play. Here is my website showing the installation.

http://www.lonlawrence.com/Modulating_Headlight/Kisan_technologies.html

So you got a headlight modulator. What does it actually do????

 

[Questions]

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying pertaining to DLR's-- my point was that if EVERYONE ran them--- they no longer have a unique impact and therefore you won't stick out any more than the next guy. I wasn't comparing them to modulating ones-- although if everyone ran those I the same would apply. You can only stand out more than the other guy if you're running something different. I don't see many modulating lights out there-- so you probably do stick out much more than usual.

Why is the high beam the only one you modulate?

You might think the stock Spyder lights up pretty well--- until you ryde one with HID's--- (I now have 4). The difference is nothing short of amazing.

I think next I'll mount a disco-ball and laser lights on my Spyder....... :roflblack:

Actually, I think you misunderstood. The fact that I can't see a dark car on a dark highway at dusk (or even other times of the day compared to light colored cars) shows you the problem. It's the dark car blending into the road. Lighting it with DRLs, even if 100 cars in row have DRLs, lets me see EVERY one of them. So, your wrong... every vehicle having them does not diminish the impact as people said it might in the beginning.

Secondly, you've missed the point of modulating headlights entirely. It's not a "see my/see my lights" thing like it is with DRL. The modulation actually caused the brain to see "motion" (and register as danger) when the cager is swinging his head from left to right at an intersection at the same speed you are traveling. That scenario makes the moving object (you.. even if you have headlights on so that you can be "seen") appear to be standing still as is the stop sign, the building, the parked cars, etc all around you. The "flashing" grabs the brains attention and says "hey, bro, there's something moving over there... it might be dangerous... better check it out." It's the survival instinct that you cannot overcome. A flashing light out of the corner of your eye will ALWAYS get your attention... you can't fight it. And the light will always flash and never appear to stand still no matter how you swing your head (the cager, that is)... so with modulating headlights, you have fought the best fight you can against intersection crashes on a motorcycle. It's as simple as that.

Finally, you ask why I only modulate the high beams. If you've ridden cycles very long, and survived, you know that a lot (most?) of motorcycles headlights on low beam in the daytime can't be seen any more clearly than a piece of shiny chrome. At dusk it looks like a red hair in a bottle. People that want to be safe always ride with the headlights on high beam, and that is also the only way Kisan Technologies recommend you hook up your modulator... to the high beam only... for maximum affect.

Now if I haven't made my case clear... I give up. This forum now has all the answers. 1. where to get your modulators 2. why to use them

Anything other than that is just for the sake of starting an argument over a faulty opinion! (smile)

Thanks to the last guy for posting the entire federal law. Print it out and carry it with you. It could save you a lot of hassle with the man (that would be ME)

 

[Questions]

So you got a headlight modulator. What does it actually do????

Bozzzzz, READ THE POSTS ON THIS PAGE. Don't just jump in the middle and try to make us start explaining it all over again. A little courtesy, please.

 

[Firefly]

No worries lonlawrence.... I think we both have misunderstood what the other is saying.... I'll try to be more clear in my opinions:

1. DLR lights increase your visibility.

2. If EVERYONE ran DLRs, your visibility, while better just by the nature of having lights ON, will NOT be any better than the next guy--- all things being equal....because if everyone has them on then there is nothing to contrast you from the other guy. If everyone wears a red shirt---- your red shirt won't stick out as much, while certainly the entire group wearing red shirts will stand out more than an entire group wearing white shirts. Make sense? So overall more visible--- but COMPARATIVE to others if DLR were 100% --- no.

3. Modulation lights increase your visibility.

4. I would think the 'modulation' alert effect is at least partially due to our brains being programmed that a flashing light means 'the five-O' is near.


I'm sure these may be a great option for those who want it.... but my HID's will only be pried from my cut, cramped and sore hands (if you've ever changed the Spyder headlight bulbs you'll understand)....:roflblack:

 

[1VENOM]

Bozzzzz, READ THE POSTS ON THIS PAGE. Don't just jump in the middle and try to make us start explaining it all over again. A little courtesy, please.

Thank you lonlawrence for answering my question concerning the modulator. I'm sorry that you had to endure so much crap in the process.

 

[SpyderWolf]

According to the law that Dave01 posted on here, they must modulate at a rate of 40 times per minute. I am going to test the headlight rings on my Spyder, and see if there is a mode that matches this rate. If so, then chances are we could get away with doing this. The only other thing I noticed is modulation is illegal at night, so you would have to remember to set them back to steady on once the sun goes down.

I will let you know what I find out with my test.

 

[Questions]

Here's another option that popped up in my twisted brain. For those of us that have or will have in my case HID headlights. Might the modulator be connected to a set of the LED headlight rings. I'm sure it could and it would fall into that grey area of the law IMHO. This might work better than modulating the "fog lights" because it is higher and therefore easier seen.

Another question is there a way for the modulating to only occur while moving? I realize it would have to tap into the speedo circuit for that. Maybe this model doesn't do that but maybe another one does. Oh the possibilities...

opcorn:

I've been using modulators since 2001 and I've never heard of one that only works while moving. I'm not real sure there's a good reason for that? Please explain. As for the LED headlight rings, I've never seen them in the daylight and I wonder if you could even see them flash when your headlights are on? The fog lights is probably a better idea unless the LEDs are such gawd-awful intensity that they would over-ride the high beams. Oh, and yes, you don't want to have to remember to turn them off. If you can't figure out how to put a sensor on them like other factory modulators, you'd probably better not be fooling with them. You'll forget to turn them off and get a ticket you can't possibly win in court. Also keep the letter of the law in mind. You can't just turn them on and off (that would be called "flashing" lights, which is illegal). They must modulate bright-dim-bright-dim, etc. There are specs for how long they should be "on" and how long "off", not just the rate per minute.

 

[Questions]

Thank you lonlawrence for answering my question concerning the modulator. I'm sorry that you had to endure so much crap in the process.

1venom... thanks for your reply. Yes, forums tend to be like that where there's always a number of people stalking any forum with little or no experience, and know little or nothing about what they are talking about, that wants to argue about everything instead of trying to learn something new. It gets aggravating when you are trying to help others.

 

[Firefly]

I've been using modulators since 2001 and I've never heard of one that only works while moving. I'm not real sure there's a good reason for that? Please explain. As for the LED headlight rings, I've never seen them in the daylight and I wonder if you could even see them flash when your headlights are on? The fog lights is probably a better idea unless the LEDs are such gawd-awful intensity that they would over-ride the high beams. Oh, and yes, you don't want to have to remember to turn them off. If you can't figure out how to put a sensor on them like other factory modulators, you'd probably better not be fooling with them. You'll forget to turn them off and get a ticket you can't possibly win in court. Also keep the letter of the law in mind. You can't just turn them on and off (that would be called "flashing" lights, which is illegal). They must modulate bright-dim-bright-dim, etc. There are specs for how long they should be "on" and how long "off", not just the rate per minute.

I know you said your setup only works when on 'Brights' setting---- is there a switch to turn them off as well if you want to run your brights without them flashing?

 

[SpyderWolf]

The headlight rings are a no go on the timing of the cycle I am afraid. They are plenty bright to see flashing with the headlights on; however, they dim in and out once every 4 seconds and that is way to slow to meet the legal requirements.

Of course, I also have the flashing capability but that would definitely get me a ticket. Although it might be fun to see everyone get out of my way once in a while as well. :dontknow: :roflblack:

 

[Questions]

I know you said your setup only works when on 'Brights' setting---- is there a switch to turn them off as well if you want to run your brights without them flashing?

No...no manual switches. As I said, you'd want a light sensor doing that chore for you, as all commercial modulators do (otherwise you'll forget to turn them off). Mine will modulate either on hi or low beam, but low beam only modulates because of the plug where we picked-up the light wires is after the relay (you don't want the relay cycling with the modulator). Most motorcycles modulators (for other brands of bikes) only modulate one or the other, but not both. But because of the ease of installation, they did not try to isolate the high beams and when you flip your lowbeam switch, they modulate also (during daylight hours... nothing modulates after sunlight gets too dim to keep the sensor on). It takes about 5 minutes to install this model. Open the trunk, pull off the fuse box cover, unplug the plug, plug the unit in and then the work starts. Now you have to mount the sensor. It can be as easy as plugging it in and running the wire up to your mirror and using a plastic wire tie to hold it there (looks terrible, though) or follow my instructions to mount it in your dash. That will take you maybe another 15 minutes or a little more.

 

[Firefly]

No...no manual switches. As I said, you'd want a light sensor doing that chore for you, as all commercial modulators do (otherwise you'll forget to turn them off). Mine will modulate either on hi or low beam, but low beam only modulates because of the plug where we picked-up the light wires is after the relay (you don't want the relay cycling with the modulator). Most motorcycles modulators (for other brands of bikes) only modulate one or the other, but not both. But because of the ease of installation, they did not try to isolate the high beams and when you flip your lowbeam switch, they modulate also (during daylight hours... nothing modulates after sunlight gets too dim to keep the sensor on). It takes about 5 minutes to install this model. Open the trunk, pull off the fuse box cover, unplug the plug, plug the unit in and then the work starts. Now you have to mount the sensor. It can be as easy as plugging it in and running the wire up to your mirror and using a plastic wire tie to hold it there (looks terrible, though) or follow my instructions to mount it in your dash. That will take you maybe another 15 minutes or a little more.

They had to do it that way because the Spyder is very unique in how it does 'High' vs. 'Low' beams. It's the same bulb for both---- the units just have a shutter system inside that works like an eyelid... that is the 'clicking' you hear when going from low to high. They could have tied it in so that when the shutters are 'up' , the modulation is 'on'... but that woulda been more work for sure....

 

[SpyderWolf]

Duh, Homer moment! pps: I went back and watched the video at tricLED and what do you know, they do sort of pulsate. I thought that was just a timer function. I didn't realize that was built in. I know the BMW "angel eye rings" are on steady. I wonder if these rings could be built the same way. Looks like a reason for an email inquiry. :dontknow:
Thanks. :thumbup:

I actually have them connected to a 4 zone control box that is operated with a remote. The headlights are on zone 1. Button A turns them on steady at maximum brightness, if you press A again they will dim up to 8 levels then cycle back to maximum brightness. Buttom B turns on flash mode which starts at 2 pulses, then increases the number with each push of the button until it starts over. Button C turns on the breathing mode, where they dim then brighten back up every 4 seconds, hitting the button again only restarts the cycle. Button D turns that set of lights off. :thumbup:

 

[SpyderWolf]

Two items:
1. I sent an email off to tricLED and got a reply back that the rings can be operated in a "solid state" mode. So the idea of using rings as a modulated source may not be dead yet. I'm going to fire an email off to Kisan next to get some input from them.

:chat:

2. In the Sept issue of Iron Butt magazine there was a rider review of the Photon Blaster which is a self modulated LED assembly. The review was positive and the the information at their site http://www.skenedesign.com/lights/ looks pretty good too. So this also may be another possibility for those running an HID set up or not wanting a modulated headlight. These things are really bright and can be mounted numerous ways. This looks to be a simpler way to get the same results. I prefer KISS if possible. Not an endorsement just passing along the information.

opcorn:

It will be interesting to hear what you find out from Kisan.

It is also intriguing that the Photon Blasters appear to flicker when observed at an angle, but not when viewed head on. I wonder if that would pose any issues of legality? :dontknow:

 

[RTGENE]

Flashing for fun

Just a reminder in case you have forgotten or its been long a long time.

Male fireflies light up to signal their desire for mates - and willing females attract the males with flashes of their own.


One other thing I leave for the REDROOF INN in 13 days----we can talk more about modulating then,hyea::roflblack:hyea::roflblack:hyea: