Help diagnosis ABS VSS any assistance appreciated

[magman]

Well spring finally here. Go to get Spydy out , 2011 RT-S, battery low throw on trickle charger. Normal I thought, been in garage for winter. I had started it a couple of times but not run it long. Any way it starts up , then goes into limp with ABS code, hadnt even moved. Checking codes P0504 P061E C0044 C 006C
Checking for corrorsion etc wigglin harness checking stuff, Cleaning brake switch etc hasnt helped. I find if I hold brake on and start the check engine p codes set right away but the abs codes dont set untill I release the brake. Im thinking the VCM internal frt brake pressure sensor may be erratic or holding a non valid value. I havent taken it to the dealer yet ( 300km)for Buddy to view electronic data, was hoping something simple as it was working perfect last year and on previous over winter starts. Any other members with similar history or codes please chime in, Ive read some of previous threads ( Excellent forum folks) but still cant get this resolved. Thanks in advance .

 

[r1100rider]

Well spring finally here. Go to get Spydy out , 2011 RT-S, battery low throw on trickle charger. Normal I thought, been in garage for winter. I had started it a couple of times but not run it long. Any way it starts up , then goes into limp with ABS code, hadnt even moved. Checking codes P0504 P061E C0044 C 006C
Checking for corrorsion etc wigglin harness checking stuff, Cleaning brake switch etc hasnt helped. I find if I hold brake on and start the check engine p codes set right away but the abs codes dont set untill I release the brake. Im thinking the VCM internal frt brake pressure sensor may be erratic or holding a non valid value. I havent taken it to the dealer yet ( 300km)for Buddy to view electronic data, was hoping something simple as it was working perfect last year and on previous over winter starts. Any other members with similar history or codes please chime in, Ive read some of previous threads ( Excellent forum folks) but still cant get this resolved. Thanks in advance .

Battery

 

[happyspyder2039]

Well spring finally here. Go to get Spydy out , 2011 RT-S, battery low throw on trickle charger. Normal I thought, been in garage for winter. I had started it a couple of times but not run it long. Any way it starts up , then goes into limp with ABS code, hadnt even moved. Checking codes P0504 P061E C0044 C 006C
Checking for corrorsion etc wigglin harness checking stuff, Cleaning brake switch etc hasnt helped. I find if I hold brake on and start the check engine p codes set right away but the abs codes dont set untill I release the brake. Im thinking the VCM internal frt brake pressure sensor may be erratic or holding a non valid value. I havent taken it to the dealer yet ( 300km)for Buddy to view electronic data, was hoping something simple as it was working perfect last year and on previous over winter starts. Any other members with similar history or codes please chime in, Ive read some of previous threads ( Excellent forum folks) but still cant get this resolved. Thanks in advance .

Put battery on charger!

 

[Chupaca]

P0504 asking for buds...reporting module ECM
P061E ECM engine control module
C0044 reporting module VCM buds
C006C can bus communication...reporting module ECM

Start by fully charging your battery. If you can disconnect it and charge it or remove the key and set it away from the unit. If cob-webby dusty or dirty clean her up. Check tire pressure (easier to roll around) roll her back and forth a bit to loosen things up. Starting her up during storage and not running up to full operating temp (fan has to come on) not a good idea. Once battery is fully charged hook it up or bring the key and turn ignition on for a few minutes. Then start and idle for a few. You may have to ryde for a bit and repete the key steps to clear and reset the computers. If things don't clear out the codes are still active and further testing needed...:thumbup:

 

[magman]

thanks all, ive checked batt v, 12.3 and cranking v 10.65. SL members look to be right on the target. Fast charged to 18v and put optimate 4 on for ovrnight charge and test.ill try starting i\tommorow. thank you again.

 

[Magdave]

thanks all, ive checked batt v, 12.3 and cranking v 10.65. SL members look to be right on the target. Fast charged to 18v and put optimate 4 on for ovrnight charge and test.ill try starting i\tommorow. thank you again.

Yep bad battery. Should be ~13V at least.

 

[Cruzr Joe]

Yep bad battery. Should be ~13V at least.

My battery shows only 12.4 or 12.5 (according to the volt meter i installed) when i turn the bike on, always starts fine and then the volt meter goes up to 14.3 for the duration of my ride. during startup it never drops below 11.6. Is that about average/normal?


Cruzr Joe

 

[Magdave]

My battery shows only 12.4 or 12.5 (according to the volt meter i installed) when i turn the bike on, always starts fine and then the volt meter goes up to 14.3 for the duration of my ride. during startup it never drops below 11.6. Is that about average/normal?


Cruzr Joe

2012 battery? Those numbers are borderline I see a new battery in your future. Of course if it sits long enough it will drain down from 13V. Put on a trickle charge and when it goes green take it off, give it a couple of hours and report what voltage you have. Personally if it goes below 12.7 in that short of time it may be near change time.


6.Battery Testing can be done in more than one way. The most accurate method is measurement of specific gravity and battery voltage. To measure specific gravity buy a temperature compensating hydrometer, to measure voltage use a digital D.C. Voltmeter. A quality load tester may be a good purchase if you need to test sealed batteries.

For any of these methods, you must first fully charge the battery and then remove the surface charge. If the battery has been sitting at least several hours (I prefer at least 12 hours) you may begin testing. To remove surface charge the battery must be discharged for several minutes. Using a headlight (high beam) will do the trick. After turning off the light you are ready to test the battery.

[TABLE="class: center articleTable"]
[TR]
[TH]State of Charge[/TH]
[TH]Specific Gravity[/TH]
[TH="colspan: 2"]Voltage[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]12V[/TD]
[TD]6V[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100%[/TD]
[TD]1.265[/TD]
[TD]12.7[/TD]
[TD]6.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]75%[/TD]
[TD]1.225[/TD]
[TD]12.4[/TD]
[TD]6.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50%[/TD]
[TD]1.190[/TD]
[TD]12.2[/TD]
[TD]6.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25%[/TD]
[TD]1.155[/TD]
[TD]12.0[/TD]
[TD]6.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Discharged[/TD]
[TD]1.120[/TD]
[TD]11.9[/TD]
[TD]6.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Load testing is yet another way of testing a battery. Load test removes amps from a battery much like starting an engine would. A load tester can be purchased at most auto parts stores. Some battery companies label their battery with the amp load for testing. This number is usually 1/2 of the CCA rating. For instance, a 500CCA battery would load test at 250 amps for 15 seconds. A load test can only be performed if the battery is near or at full charge.

The results of your testing should be as follows:

Hydrometer readings should not vary more than .05 differences between cells.

Digital Voltmeters should read as the voltage is shown in this document. The sealed AGM and Gel-Cell battery voltage (full charged) will be slightly higher in the 12.8 to 12.9 ranges. If you have voltage readings in the 10.5 volts range on a charged battery, that typically indicates a shorted cell.

If you have a maintenance free wet cell, the only ways to test are voltmeter and load test. Any of the maintenance free type batteries that have a built in hydrometer(black/green window) will tell you the condition of 1 cell of 6. You may get a good reading from 1 cell but have a problem with other cells in the battery.

When in doubt about battery testing, call the battery manufacturer. Many batteries sold today have a toll free number to call for help.
http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html

 

[Cruzr Joe]

2012 battery? Those numbers are borderline I see a new battery in your future. Of course if it sits long enough it will drain down from 13V. Put on a trickle charge and when it goes green take it off, give it a couple of hours and report what voltage you have. Personally if it goes below 12.7 in that short of time it may be near change time.

2014 Battery

 

[Magdave]

2014 Battery

See my edit. I am not sure of the parasitic drain on the 14 so follow the testing I posted there. That voltage seems to be a little on the low side as AGM batteries like ours usually read higher. Also the alternator should start at ~14 and go down over time especially with a 100 amp alternator the 14 has. It should go down to ~13 steady after you have ridden for a while. It should not stay pegged at 14.3.

 

[Cruzr Joe]

See my edit. I am not sure of the parasitic drain on the 14 so follow the testing I posted there. That voltage seems to be a little on the low side as AGM batteries like our usually read higher.

Thanks

 

[Magdave]

Thanks

Check you connections too. A loose connection can act like a resistor and create a voltage drop pretty quickly.

 

[magman]

Check you connections too. A loose connection can act like a resistor and create a voltage drop pretty quickly.

charged battery 13.6 , maintains 12.8 v still throws faults immediately on start. i will follow advice on driving it once i get the tupperware back on. if that fails iguess ill be digging deeper into wring. i hope a module hasnt failed with low voltage cranking , and i cant get my brain around the brake pressure vs brake switch fault. may need a buudy afterall, just hate not doing the basics first. price of missdiagnoised vcm module replacement literally scares the sh/[;0 out of me as dealer experience has left me with less than confident feelings in past.if the road test results go good and all faults erased Ill buy eveybody beers .......

 

[Magdave]

charged battery 13.6 , maintains 12.8 v still throws faults immediately on start. i will follow advice on driving it once i get the tupperware back on. if that fails iguess ill be digging deeper into wring. i hope a module hasnt failed with low voltage cranking , and i cant get my brain around the brake pressure vs brake switch fault. may need a buudy afterall, just hate not doing the basics first. price of missdiagnoised vcm module replacement literally scares the sh/[;0 out of me as dealer experience has left me with less than confident feelings in past.if the road test results go good and all faults erased Ill buy eveybody beers .......

Did you remove the surface charge before testing? I doubt it is a wiring problem at this point. You mentioned you started it right? Drive it around the block and report back. That can be done without the Tupperware :thumbup::thumbup:There was nothing in your codes about brake pressure. Those are typical low/bad battery codes. Some codes will reset after driving to recalibrate.

 

[magman]

Did you remove the surface charge before testing? I doubt it is a wiring problem at this point. You mentioned you started it right? Drive it around the block and report back. That can be done without the Tupperware :thumbup::thumbup:There was nothing in your codes about brake pressure. Those are typical low/bad battery codes. Some codes will reset after driving to recalibrate.

Just pulled into shop afterI Took for a 20 km rip , lots of dash activity including abs fault limp home , vss and abs light , flashing check enging limp indication. Something new got DPs warning on some bumps as well. Back to shop ,Put fluke 88 V meter on now 12.75 after shut off.checked codes p061E p0504 c0044 c006c remain . Voltage with KOEO 12.47 ,clear flood cranking v 10.93 for 15 seconds, returns to 12.43 static KOEO then voltage increases to 12.62 15 seconds after turning key off and is sitting stable at that value. Hmmmmm dont like. Exchanged relays , reset all fuses no change.
The only thing that has changed its actions is turning key on or starting with brake depressed. When starting that way the vss and abs waring lamps stay off until i release the brake.
No check engine until i start,then p0504 and p006e set and when i release pedal abs and vss lights come on and c0044 andc006c faults set. Looking at faults i think something with relation to brake switch and brake fluid pressure sensor. Ive search for where the fluid pressure switch is, by wiring diagram it looks like in vcm. Dont know what model of bosch abs , but 10.1 shows pressure switch in frt brake line between master and abs module.? Thats where i was getting the pressure thoughts from.any other ideas. Its an interesting problem as it started with the low battery cranking , dont mind working hard at it before taking a long trip to dealer for Buddy to check, thats when it turns to real pain im afraid.

 

[Magdave]

Just pulled into shop afterI Took for a 20 km rip , lots of dash activity including abs fault limp home , vss and abs light , flashing check enging limp indication. Something new got DPs warning on some bumps as well. Back to shop ,Put fluke 88 V meter on now 12.75 after shut off.checked codes p061E p0504 c0044 c006c remain . Voltage with KOEO 12.47 ,clear flood cranking v 10.93 for 15 seconds, returns to 12.43 static KOEO then voltage increases to 12.62 15 seconds after turning key off and is sitting stable at that value. Hmmmmm dont like. Exchanged relays , reset all fuses no change.
The only thing that has changed its actions is turning key on or starting with brake depressed. When starting that way the vss and abs waring lamps stay off until i release the brake.
No check engine until i start,then p0504 and p006e set and when i release pedal abs and vss lights come on and c0044 andc006c faults set. Looking at faults i think something with relation to brake switch and brake fluid pressure sensor. Ive search for where the fluid pressure switch is, by wiring diagram it looks like in vcm. Dont know what model of bosch abs , but 10.1 shows pressure switch in frt brake line between master and abs module.? Thats where i was getting the pressure thoughts from.any other ideas. Its an interesting problem as it started with the low battery cranking , dont mind working hard at it before taking a long trip to dealer for Buddy to check, thats when it turns to real pain im afraid.

Personally my self I would replace the battery it is borderline and go from there. Did the volt meter stay pegged at 14.3? If the battery change doesn't fix it unfortunately it is Dealer time. Any power washing done? ECM acts funny if it isn't getting enough voltage.

 

[billybovine]

Just pulled into shop afterI Took for a 20 km rip , lots of dash activity including abs fault limp home , vss and abs light , flashing check enging limp indication. Something new got DPs warning on some bumps as well. Back to shop ,Put fluke 88 V meter on now 12.75 after shut off.checked codes p061E p0504 c0044 c006c remain . Voltage with KOEO 12.47 ,clear flood cranking v 10.93 for 15 seconds, returns to 12.43 static KOEO then voltage increases to 12.62 15 seconds after turning key off and is sitting stable at that value. Hmmmmm dont like. Exchanged relays , reset all fuses no change.
The only thing that has changed its actions is turning key on or starting with brake depressed. When starting that way the vss and abs waring lamps stay off until i release the brake.
No check engine until i start,then p0504 and p006e set and when i release pedal abs and vss lights come on and c0044 andc006c faults set. Looking at faults i think something with relation to brake switch and brake fluid pressure sensor. Ive search for where the fluid pressure switch is, by wiring diagram it looks like in vcm. Dont know what model of bosch abs , but 10.1 shows pressure switch in frt brake line between master and abs module.? Thats where i was getting the pressure thoughts from.any other ideas. Its an interesting problem as it started with the low battery cranking , dont mind working hard at it before taking a long trip to dealer for Buddy to check, thats when it turns to real pain im afraid.

From your load test results the battery look in good shape. So that can be eliminated as a cause.
3 of the codes are for brake pressure and brake light mismatch. So I would look there first. Brake light comes on when pedal is depressed then the only thing left is the pressure switch.

 

[magman]

Personally my self I would replace the battery it is borderline and go from there. Did the volt meter stay pegged at 14.3? If the battery change doesn't fix it unfortunately it is Dealer time. Any power washing done? ECM acts funny if it isn't getting enough voltage.

yes a new battery would eliminate any doubt. internal batt fault.? I did not monitor bat v while driving, there is only 2500 km on this bike , it spends a lot of time parked as I have been away quite a bit since purchasing it. Sulfation etc and other internal battery issues , along with sittingb in sub zero (possibily frozen bat). testing is great, substitution is better on any trouble tree.I always try to keep it simple as getting side tracked in diagnosis is common. its always embarrassing, humiliating, or infuriating ( depending on what side of the issue your wallet is ) when something basic ends up being the culprit and expensive parts and labors have been consumed in the fix .I look at it as an opportunity to get a new battery. If it fixes it perfect, if not i will have a new battery, nothing wrong there. ithink there is toom any erratic things happening to start chasing them all individually. thanks for helping me stay grounded.

 

[bruiser]

One fairly easy test before buying a new battery. Disconnect the battery, use jumpers from a known good battery to the disconnected battery hot cable and one to Spyder ground. Then start the Spyder. See what happens. I've done this on other vehicles as a test and it works. If you still get the codes, it's not the battery.

 

[Magdave]

One fairly easy test before buying a new battery. Disconnect the battery, use jumpers from a known good battery to the disconnected battery hot cable and one to Spyder ground. Then start the Spyder. See what happens. I've done this on other vehicles as a test and it works. If you still get the codes, it's not the battery.

:thumbup: Good idea