Is there a way of Adjusting the ACS suspension system?

[gerald37]

I have owned three Spyder RT's. A 2015, a 2019, and now a 2021. The 2015 did not have the air compressor for automatic leveling. The 2019 and 2021 do have. My question is, is there any adjustment for how much air is put in the air bag of the rear shock? It might be my imagination, but it seems like the 2021 rides rougher than the 2019. It seems like there is too much air in the air bag of the rear shock. The Spyder has had the rear shock replaced. When new the shock bolt came loose and fell out it damaged the shock. The state of Iowa has so many rough back roads and it just seems to me this Spyder rides rougher than my 2019 did. I never ride with a passenger and only weigh 160 lbs. I understand the air compressor is to level the bike when it starts up which it does, so it is probably working ok. I liked the 2015 where I just ran about 15 lbs. in the air bag, and it rode well.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Short answer is NO, there's no easy way of adjusting the ACS height &/or air pressure settings! :lecturef_smilie:

Longer answer is that the air pressure is purely incidental to whatever it takes to maintain the pre-set ride height, so while you can't really do anything to increase &/or decrease the air pressure in the air bag for any given ride height, if you find someone with the appropriate BUDS/BUDS2, they can reset the Max & Min Ride Heights using BUDS & the applicable Height Spacer Blocks! But that ride height setting process is (supposedly ) what was originally done at the factory before your Spyder was crated for dispatch, so getting that done again will probably just reset your ride height to what you've got already!! :banghead: If you decide you want to free-style it all & set things to different parameters in order to suit your needs/wants/riding style etc, you really want someone who knows what they're doing & who realises & can explain the ramifications of any changes made if you want to start playing with doing that particular reset! Can you guess how I know that?? pps:

 

[USAF]

I have an adjustable air ride suspension button on my 2012 RT-S I ride with mine all the way soft for the best ride, You should have the same thing ?

 

[PMK]

Yes, it can be done.
If you have the means to fabricate or modify the oem link rod, you can alter the length, and with that adjust where the Spyder sets. Shortening the link should decrease the pressure and height, the lowered height is in part due to reduced air pressure in the air ride system.

A tunable turnbuckle design with a jamb nut would allow an easily reversed setup if the oem design was ever desired again.

 

[gerald37]

Short answer is NO, there's no easy way of adjusting the ACS height &/or air pressure settings! :lecturef_smilie:

Longer answer is that the air pressure is purely incidental to whatever it takes to maintain the pre-set ride height, so while you can't really do anything to increase &/or decrease the air pressure in the air bag for any given ride height, if you find someone with the appropriate BUDS/BUDS2, they can reset the Max & Min Ride Heights using BUDS & the applicable Height Spacer Blocks! But that ride height setting process is (supposedly ) what was originally done at the factory before your Spyder was crated for dispatch, so getting that done again will probably just reset your ride height to what you've got already!! :banghead: If you decide you want to free-style it all & set things to different parameters in order to suit your needs/wants/riding style etc, you really want someone who knows what they're doing & who realises & can explain the ramifications of any changes made if you want to start playing with doing that particular reset! Can you guess how I know that?? pps:

This is what I thought. I did not think it would be possible to change the pressure. It is probably my imagination that it rides rougher than my 2019. I did have car tires on my 2019 that might be the difference. I will put car tire on the 2021 when it needs tires. I also had a BajaRon Sway bar on the 2019, but I don't think that would have anything to do with the rough ride.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I have an adjustable air ride suspension button on my 2012 RT-S I ride with mine all the way soft for the best ride, You should have the same thing ?

The 'Soft/Hard' thing on that scale is at best mis-labelling; at worst, it's pure marketing grade Bovine fecal matter! :lecturef_smilie:

By adjusting the 'level' on that scale, it's really only varying the volume of air in the air bag that determines where the bike's 'static ride height' will sit within the pre-set Max & Min height limits. . Sure, your suspension will be (marginally/fractionally) 'softer' when the height is set lower (by chosing 'Soft' on the scale) because the coil spring is supported by a smidge less air pressure - at least until the suspension bottoms out, when it'll suddenly become jarringly hard! :shocked: But the size of the air bag & the overall quite small volume of air & air pressure that it contains when absolutely full means that any variation of pressure in/to the bag will have far more impact on the ride height than it will on the 'softness/hardness' of the ride - you're adding/subtracting a difference of about a thumb thimble full of air to change from the top of the scale (Hard) to the bottom of the scale (Soft); so most riders will never know, and while some might think otherwise, they really won't be able to actually determine any real difference that changing it'll make in anything but the small difference it makes in static ride height.....

Still, if it makes you happy to think that..... :thumbup:

 

[EdMat]

I have an adjustable air ride suspension button on my 2012 RT-S I ride with mine all the way soft for the best ride, You should have the same thing ?

That feature was lost prior to the new style dash in 2018.

 

[GaryRT]

Just an FYI. Just got back from Lamonster Rally in Missouri. Rode there and did the National Forrest with constant turns and narrow to no shoulder dropoffs. Was great. Total round trip from San Antonio was 1960.5 miles. When only 5 miles from home on a back road, my rear suspension died. Kidney jarring ride the rest of the way home. In the shop now awaiting diagnosis. 2020 RTL with 7600 miles. Last year, the computer went out on it while in Big Bend and would not release the parking brake. Then the brake released, but had warning beeps all the way 550 miles home. Had 1350 miles then. It broke, but still God is good to get me that close to home. Would have been major problem if on a Mountain Road.

 

[rjinaz86323]

Yes, it can be done.
Shortening the link should decrease the pressure and height, the lowered height is in part due to reduced air pressure in the air ride system.

A tunable turnbuckle design with a jamb nut would allow an easily reversed setup if the oem design was ever desired again.

That seems backwards. With a shorter rod you would need more air to achieve a level ride

 

[Joel The Biker]

You are correct. Longer rod = softer ride, shorter rod = harder ride.

 

[PMK]

That seems backwards. With a shorter rod you would need more air to achieve a level ride

Maybe, or maybe not.
Recall, earlier Spyder RT series had a rider adjustable control switch that allowed the rider to make changes of firmness of the rear air spring bladder.
When altering the setting, the softer setting would lower the rear of the machine, while the firmer setting would raise the machine.
A constant ride height was never obtained if a setting was changed. Essentially, no true “level” existed, except for possibly the middle position if selected.
Therefore, in order to obtain a softer air spring, the Spyder rear suspension must be allowed to compress further. (Less air pressure = softer ride characteristics = lower rear end).

So then, the goal is to lower the rear of the Spyder on a non rider selectable ACS unit. If the link rod were lengthened, the followup would sense the Spyder is riding low and increase air pressure, raising the back end, causing a firmer ride.
If the link rod were shortened, the Spyder would set lower in the rear on account of less air pressure within the air spring bladder, while the followup would control pressure to maintain the lowered rear height.

In simplest terms, we need the swingarm to move upward (Spyder tail lower), by reducing air pressure. The followup does not monitor pressure, it monitors position. To keep the position sensor in the same position, the rod would need to be shorter. The null position of the followup position sensor does not add nor release air from the system, and this position of the followup sensor must be maintained.

Very likely, even simpler than fabricating parts, the followup sensor arm could be loosened and the followup sensor shaft repositioned (rotated) slightly in, I believe, a clockwise direction when facing the followup arm. You would easily know if the rotation direction is correct if the Spyders rear lowered.

I believe I have it correct, but if not, I do accept being wrong.

 

[NEXUS]

Total Control of your ACS

Maybe, or maybe not.
Recall, earlier Spyder RT series had a rider adjustable control switch that allowed the rider to make changes of firmness of the rear air spring bladder.
When altering the setting, the softer setting would lower the rear of the machine, while the firmer setting would raise the machine.
A constant ride height was never obtained if a setting was changed. Essentially, no true “level” existed, except for possibly the middle position if selected.
Therefore, in order to obtain a softer air spring, the Spyder rear suspension must be allowed to compress further. (Less air pressure = softer ride characteristics = lower rear end).

So then, the goal is to lower the rear of the Spyder on a non rider selectable ACS unit. If the link rod were lengthened, the followup would sense the Spyder is riding low and increase air pressure, raising the back end, causing a firmer ride.
If the link rod were shortened, the Spyder would set lower in the rear on account of less air pressure within the air spring bladder, while the followup would control pressure to maintain the lowered rear height.

In simplest terms, we need the swingarm to move upward (Spyder tail lower), by reducing air pressure. The followup does not monitor pressure, it monitors position. To keep the position sensor in the same position, the rod would need to be shorter. The null position of the followup position sensor does not add nor release air from the system, and this position of the followup sensor must be maintained.

Very likely, even simpler than fabricating parts, the followup sensor arm could be loosened and the followup sensor shaft repositioned (rotated) slightly in, I believe, a clockwise direction when facing the followup arm. You would easily know if the rotation direction is correct if the Spyders rear lowered.

I believe I have it correct, but if not, I do accept being wrong.

I do not want to rehash old post, there are many different options on this.

Depending on your skill level you can take total control of your ACS . I have a 2020 RT limited and
this is one of the things I did as soon as I got it home. This is my fifth spyder and I have been here from
the beginning. On my first 2008 I had put a air suspension on this it was a modified Harley true air
suspension not a air bag that is on the Spyders now. It worked extremely well with air on both sides of the
rear shock.

What I did was disconnect air compressor and relief air value from the Spyder’s wiring harness but left
the swing arm control switch hooked up. I put a lighted momentary rocker switch on the dash and ran
separate power to rocker arm switch from a separate accessory panel hard wired to battery.
Installed air gauge on dash hooked to input airline to bag.

Now I can raise air pressure on bag at will with Spyder not running. The auto system has to be running in gear
and parking brake off. I have not receive any codes or display warnings on screen.

My normal pressure for me alone is around 50psi with me sitting on seat with wife 70psi

I just wanted total control on this. There is nothing wrong with the auto system if its set up correctly.

Nexus

 

[PMK]

I do not want to rehash old post, there are many different options on this.

Depending on your skill level you can take total control of your ACS . I have a 2020 RT limited and
this is one of the things I did as soon as I got it home. This is my fifth spyder and I have been here from
the beginning. On my first 2008 I had put a air suspension on this it was a modified Harley true air
suspension not a air bag that is on the Spyders now. It worked extremely well with air on both sides of the
rear shock.

What I did was disconnect air compressor and relief air value from the Spyder’s wiring harness but left
the swing arm control switch hooked up. I put a lighted momentary rocker switch on the dash and ran
separate power to rocker arm switch from a separate accessory panel hard wired to battery.
Installed air gauge on dash hooked to input airline to bag.

Now I can raise air pressure on bag at will with Spyder not running. The auto system has to be running in gear
and parking brake off. I have not receive any codes or display warnings on screen.

My normal pressure for me alone is around 50psi with me sitting on seat with wife 70psi

I just wanted total control on this. There is nothing wrong with the auto system if its set up correctly.

Nexus

View attachment 198943

The person that originally asked about all this had delivery issues where the dealer incorrectly assembled his Spyder from the crate. He has since decided the Spyder rear rides too firm and wished it could be made softer with minimal effort. Your converting from non adjustable to adjustable may be the answer he desires and is within his skillset.

It may be wise to quote his post, not mine to get his attention to see your words and method.

 

[DGoebel]

...
Depending on your skill level you can take total control of your ACS . ...

What I did was ....
Nexus
View attachment 198943

Kudo's to you Nexus, I work in a small aircraft wiring company and you've just inspired me for a winter project.
If I'm sucessful, I'll call it the Nexus mod. Did you use take pics or video of your project, notes on what switch etc?
AND you mounted a full size tablet over the dash... for mapping etc. Wow! Hat's off to you..

 

[PMK]

I do not want to rehash old post, there are many different options on this.

Depending on your skill level you can take total control of your ACS . I have a 2020 RT limited and
this is one of the things I did as soon as I got it home. This is my fifth spyder and I have been here from
the beginning. On my first 2008 I had put a air suspension on this it was a modified Harley true air
suspension not a air bag that is on the Spyders now. It worked extremely well with air on both sides of the
rear shock.

What I did was disconnect air compressor and relief air value from the Spyder’s wiring harness but left
the swing arm control switch hooked up. I put a lighted momentary rocker switch on the dash and ran
separate power to rocker arm switch from a separate accessory panel hard wired to battery.
Installed air gauge on dash hooked to input airline to bag.

Now I can raise air pressure on bag at will with Spyder not running. The auto system has to be running in gear
and parking brake off. I have not receive any codes or display warnings on screen.

My normal pressure for me alone is around 50psi with me sitting on seat with wife 70psi

I just wanted total control on this. There is nothing wrong with the auto system if its set up correctly.

Nexus

View attachment 198943

After giving your words a day of thought, you mentioned how you accomplished your modification to allow the air ride to operate, and be controlled on your 2020 Spyder.

I do ask though, you mentioned leaving the followup system of the link rod and rotary position sensor connected. Have you retained this in your homebuilt electrical harness / electrical system.

If so, by what method does your momentary switch utilize the followup portion of the system?

Based on your description though, and I may be incorrect, your new wire and switch setup simply run the compressor to raise the Spyder firming the ride, or releases air, lowering the Spyder and softening the ride, BUT your system does not incorporate any means that acts as a limit switch, either via air pressure or vehicle height. In simple terms, the operator must ensure they do not overfill the air ride bladder.

Regardless, a very cool idea to add adjustability where BRP / Can Am has removed it.

 

[larryd]

After giving your words a day of thought, you mentioned how you accomplished your modification to allow the air ride to operate, and be controlled on your 2020 Spyder.

I do ask though, you mentioned leaving the followup system of the link rod and rotary position sensor connected. Have you retained this in your homebuilt electrical harness / electrical system.

If so, by what method does your momentary switch utilize the followup portion of the system?

Based on your description though, and I may be incorrect, your new wire and switch setup simply run the compressor to raise the Spyder firming the ride, or releases air, lowering the Spyder and softening the ride, BUT your system does not incorporate any means that acts as a limit switch, either via air pressure or vehicle height. In simple terms, the operator must ensure they do not overfill the air ride bladder.

Regardless, a very cool idea to add adjustability where BRP / Can Am has removed it.

This method of controlling the air ride system that NEXUS has done to his 2020 Spyder is very similar to what I've done to my 2014 RTS several years ago...The air pressure in the bag is controlled by the operator using the rocker switch...I have a dash air gauge that displays the air bag pressure all the time...If you'd see how much the air pressure fluctuates under normal 2up riding conditions, you'd be amazed...
I can also use my onboard compressor with a flexible air hose and a special adapter under the seat that hooks on the schrader valve to inflate a tire if needed...BRP had a similar factory set up on their Outlander LTD several years ago...(Maybe around 2010, I had one back then)...My factory air ride set up on my 2014 had 2 compressors failures and I was sick of the constant air compressor on/off and the exhausting of air on every bump and twist of the machine...My "air on demand" system has worked flawlessly for 3 plus years...And yes, if you held the rocker switch in the on position tooooo loooong you'd have a air bag failure...Just like if you were inflating a tire and way over inflated it...
There are MANY SMART and innovated Forum members out there that contribute to making our Spyders a BETTER MACHINE...larryd

 

[PMK]

This method of controlling the air ride system that NEXUS has done to his 2020 Spyder is very similar to what I've done to my 2014 RTS several years ago...The air pressure in the bag is controlled by the operator using the rocker switch...I have a dash air gauge that displays the air bag pressure all the time...If you'd see how much the air pressure fluctuates under normal 2up riding conditions, you'd be amazed...
I can also use my onboard compressor with a flexible air hose and a special adapter under the seat that hooks on the schrader valve to inflate a tire if needed...BRP had a similar factory set up on their Outlander LTD several years ago...(Maybe around 2010, I had one back then)...My factory air ride set up on my 2014 had 2 compressors failures and I was sick of the constant air compressor on/off and the exhausting of air on every bump and twist of the machine...My "air on demand" system has worked flawlessly for 3 plus years...And yes, if you held the rocker switch in the on position tooooo loooong you'd have a air bag failure...Just like if you were inflating a tire and way over inflated it...
There are MANY SMART and innovated Forum members out there that contribute to making our Spyders a BETTER MACHINE...larryd

Larry, the original person that started this topic has had a multitude of rear air ride issues and rear shock installation issues on his machine. His ability to make simple modifications, or complex modifications as you suggest are entirely upon him to decide if within his skillset.

As for your MANY SMART members, yes, there are some, but also many posts that are obviously incorrect or other times simply parroted words. Add to this, there are far more folks unwilling and lacking knowledge about their Spyder than to simply fire it up and ride.

Regarding how Gerald, the person that began this topic, I have no dog in the fight regarding what method, or if he even overcomes his harsh ride concerns.

Your system sounds excellent for you. Years ago I had considered something similar, but decided for us the need was minimal.

 

[NEXUS]

After giving your words a day of thought, you mentioned how you accomplished your modification to allow the air ride to operate, and be controlled on your 2020 Spyder.

I do ask though, you mentioned leaving the followup system of the link rod and rotary position sensor connected. Have you retained this in your homebuilt electrical harness / electrical system.

If so, by what method does your momentary switch utilize the followup portion of the system?

Based on your description though, and I may be incorrect, your new wire and switch setup simply run the compressor to raise the Spyder firming the ride; or releases air, lowering the Spyder and softening the ride; BUT your system does not incorporate any means that acts as a limit switch, either via air pressure or vehicle height. In simple terms, the operator must ensure they do not overfill the air ride bladder.

Regardless, a very cool idea to add adjustability where BRP / Can Am has removed it.

This mod was done about a year and 1/2 ago - let me explain
At the time I did this I had no problems at all with the ACS system.
I did this because I wanted total control over the airbag, just a personal preference.

I pulled the potentiometer on the swing arm off to start with to try to figure out what type of signal
it was sending back to the BUDS system. The only way you can get this thing to work is with the motorcycle in gear, running, and the park brake off, which made it difficult at the time to determine.
Also when it was removed and the engine running it gave a code and ! and said suspension fault.

So I approach this from a different angle. I disconnected air compressor from the electrical system
which is just a two wire hot and ground. I also disconnected the air relief solenoid switch which is also
two wire hot and ground. I tested them both with the outside 12 V power source just testing them to see
what type of amperage and individually running them separately. I then left the potentiometer connected
to the wiring harness and did a test run with both the solenoid switch and the air compressor disconnected
I did not get any warning or code codes when I did this.

So I ran a separate hot from my accessory panel to the solenoid switch and air compressor and ground
wire to the frame. I use the same kind of female electrical connection so if I ever wanted to plug it back in
back to factory it would be an easy process.

I mounted a waterproof lighted momentary rocker arm switch on the console and then I found a relatively
inexpensive LED air pressure Gauge on Amazon. I ran a separate hotwire from my accessory panel to the
center of the rocker arm switch. Installed the sending unit for the air gauge on the line going into the air
bag.

(BUT your system does not incorporate any means that acts as a limit switch, either via
air pressure or vehicle height. In simple terms, the operator must ensure they do not
overfill the air ride bladder)

You are totally correct on the statement above but it all depends on the person operating the
rocker arm switch. If I push it forward the compressor comes on I can see it building air in the
LED gauge if I push it back I hear the solenoid switch and the air relief releases air and understand
this is a momentary spring load to center switch. This is a simple airbag under the seat but it does
control the softness of the ride and the only reason I did this because I wanted to control that
to my personal preference.

It's the same reason I put a handbrake on every spyder I owned, personal preference.

Nexus

 

[PMK]

This mod was done about a year and 1/2 ago - let me explain
At the time I did this I had no problems at all with the ACS system.
I did this because I wanted total control over the airbag, just a personal preference.

I pulled the potentiometer on the swing arm off to start with to try to figure out what type of signal
it was sending back to the BUDS system. The only way you can get this thing to work is with the motorcycle in gear, running, and the park brake off, which made it difficult at the time to determine.
Also when it was removed and the engine running it gave a code and ! and said suspension fault.

So I approach this from a different angle. I disconnected air compressor from the electrical system
which is just a two wire hot and ground. I also disconnected the air relief solenoid switch which is also
two wire hot and ground. I tested them both with the outside 12 V power source just testing them to see
what type of amperage and individually running them separately. I then left the potentiometer connected
to the wiring harness and did a test run with both the solenoid switch and the air compressor disconnected
I did not get any warning or code codes when I did this.

So I ran a separate hot from my accessory panel to the solenoid switch and air compressor and ground
wire to the frame. I use the same kind of female electrical connection so if I ever wanted to plug it back in
back to factory it would be an easy process.

I mounted a waterproof lighted momentary rocker arm switch on the console and then I found a relatively
inexpensive LED air pressure Gauge on Amazon. I ran a separate hotwire from my accessory panel to the
center of the rocker arm switch. Installed the sending unit for the air gauge on the line going into the air
bag.

(BUT your system does not incorporate any means that acts as a limit switch, either via
air pressure or vehicle height. In simple terms, the operator must ensure they do not
overfill the air ride bladder)

You are totally correct on the statement above but it all depends on the person operating the
rocker arm switch. If I push it forward the compressor comes on I can see it building air in the
LED gauge if I push it back I hear the solenoid switch and the air relief releases air and understand
this is a momentary spring load to center switch. This is a simple airbag under the seat but it does
control the softness of the ride and the only reason I did this because I wanted to control that
to my personal preference.

It's the same reason I put a handbrake on every spyder I owned, personal preference.

Nexus

Nexus, somehow I believe you have replied in such a way that blended replies from Larry D and myself. As a suggestion, you might reread the few recent replies and edit as needed.

My one point I brought forward as a concern for yours and Larry D modified systems is they possibly could be over inflated.

Regarding my replies to Gerald, the original topic starter, I merely suggested making adjustments to either the link rod length or resetting the null position of the the followup sensor in relation to the arm. These changes I posted were a simple method to lower the rear of the Spyder, by reducing the air pressure within the air ride bladder.

No other changes would be made. These changes would still incorporate the oem pressure regulating aspects of the system.

It is fabulous that you and Larry had redesigned the oem air ride system to personalize it as needed for yourselves. When the air ride system acted up on our 2014, which as you know has the operator selectable settings, I merely swapped out the oem check valve for a fully stainless (with Viton O ring I believe), but identical check valve, and it has functioned as designed for many years.

Regarding what Gerald, the person that started this topic decides to do is entirely up to him. We have never met, and I have no idea of his talents and skillset.

 

[larryd]

NEXUS & PMK...YOU BOTH are very knowledgeable and VERY RESPECTED by me...I ALWAYS read your posts, NO matter what the subject matter...There are a few others in this category in my book...

AND YES, these air system modifications require WAY ABOVE AVERAGE SKILL LEVELS...

I verbally help one member several years ago do this...He had a problem with the 1/4" air gauge line blowing out, turns out he was using 1/4" water line off his refrigerator