Just found these RPM levels for the 1330

[bhfromme]

I just read this on the Monster Fuel website. This is under Spyder Info and is specifically in reference to the 1330. Thought it was interesting and just wanted to share it here:

Clutch: For best clutch longevity and heat avoidance, a stock tuned engine should always be kept 3500rpm and above for 3rd-4th gear and 4000 rpm or above in 5th-6th gears. (Due to clutch lock up point and variable oil pressure)
With new found power of Monster Fi Tuning, this becomes even more important. Slipping clutches create heat, deteriorate the oil and wear the clutch plates prematurely. It is recommended to always keep engine 4000rpm and above in 3rd-4th gears and 4500rpm and above in 5th-6th gears. Should last a lifetime. (with proper oil changes)

 

[safecracker]

I hardly ever get over 3800 rpms. If you go by ECO mode you will changing gears in the low to high 2,000 rpms. Bruce

 

[JayBros]

BS at the speed of light is still BS! Clutch lock up on the 1330 Ace Engine is controlled by the hydraulic control module and occurs completely at the opening of the fly by wire throttle.

 

[jjc54]

I just read this on the Monster Fuel website. This is under Spyder Info and is specifically in reference to the 1330. Thought it was interesting and helpful and just wanted to share it here:

Clutch: For best clutch longevity and heat avoidance, a stock tuned engine should always be kept 3500rpm and above for 3rd-4th gear and 4000 rpm or above in 5th-6th gears. (Due to clutch lock up point and variable oil pressure)
With new found power of Monster Fi Tuning, this becomes even more important. Slipping clutches create heat, deteriorate the oil and wear the clutch plates prematurely. It is recommended to always keep engine 4000rpm and above in 3rd-4th gears and 4500rpm and above in 5th-6th gears. Should last a lifetime. (with proper oil changes)

This sounds like they are stating the RPMs for the SE5 on the earlier bikes.

 

[BajaRon]

Here is a news flash. We have gotten some bikes in with a great deal of carbon buildup on the valves and pistons. The 1330 doesn't burn oil. And it wouldn't get to the valves anyway unless it was coming through the emissions system. But when you lug the engine, you're creating a big problem, long term.

Some will run in 6th gear and instead of downshifting to pass, they just twist the throttle. Just because the 1330 doesn't necessarily complain, doesn't mean you aren't causing a problem.

These are high output engines. Maybe not on the scale of a crotch rocket. But the Spyder is a heavy machine and it needs HP and torque to accelerate. Give your engine a break and your wallet at the same time. Keep your RPM's above 3,500, unless you're putting along in traffic in 1st gear. And when you want to go faster, 4,500 or more is a good idea.

The Can-Am Spyder's 1330 ACE engine produces 115 horsepower at 7,250 RPM and 96 lb.-ft of torque at 5,000 RPM. So rev it up, folks.

My personal feeling is that ECO mode will harm the engine over time. I have nothing to back this up, except that it encourages you to shift at lower RPM, which many are doing already.

"Oh! The engineers would never do that, Ron!" No, they probably wouldn't. Unless they were paid to or overridden by marketing and bean counters. I know this is a cynical attitude and I apologize for it, but I've been around a while. And there is, in my opinion, reason for being this way. Looking a gift horse in the mouth isn't always such a bad idea.

 

[bhfromme]

Thank you Ron. I like to keep my RPMs over 3500 and it's good to hear a pro tell me it's ok to crank these engines up and keep them cranked.

 

[Gwolf]

"Oh! The engineers would never do that, Ron!"

After seeing and correcting other things the engineers had done on the Spyder models, I would never say there was anything the engineers would not do. I don't think anybody needs a list, but if you do there are list items all over the forums. Frunk won't open, trunk won't open, parking brakes malfunctioning, and I won't even get into the oil check procedures in the manual, or the OEM rubber. And there are many other things that are simply annoying, which the engineers are responsible for.

The reverse trike is the best handling of the three wheeler designs, The reverse gear is great too. It is the small, annoying things that could be corrected with simple designs, but have ended up with some off the wall designs that are just a problem looking for a place to happen.

 

[JayBros]

This sounds like they are stating the RPMs for the SE5 on the earlier bike

The SE5 Spyders have a centrifugal clutch that has to have the engine rev to keep the clutch locked up and prevent unnecessary wear to the clutch plates. Here's the basic information about the 1330 engine torque curve.

 

[jjc54]

Here is something I found on Lamonster's site:
Here's something I picked up this morning that I thought I would share with you all. Great info for those of you that want to know how the 1330 clutch works.

The clutch in the SE6 transmission is 100% dynamic. It is completely controlled by the TCM and free from centrifugal or mechanical spring engagement. The springs in the SE6 clutch are used to release or disengage the clutch, not engage it as in SM5.

The pressure applied to the clutch plates to engage it, and control the necessary slip is applied by a hydraulically controlled piston. The hydraulic pressure is controlled by spool valves acting as hydraulic relays allowing low oil pressure to control the high oil pressure needed to squeeze the plates or enact shifts.

The TCM will decide how much pressure is required to squeeze depending on several inputs, but primarily engine RPM, gear position, vehicle speed, and throttle opening.

For example. If the operator is driving through town at 30 MPH, in 6th gear, and advances the throttle quite heavily, the TCM will adjust the hydraulic pressure to the point that the clutch will not slip.

This is a huge improvement over the SE5 which relied solely on centrifigal force of the flyweight rollers to apply clutch pressure, and will eliminate clutch plate failure due to inadequate pressure caused by low RPM.

Therefore, there is no specific RPM where the plates are fully engaged. The clutch fully engages when conditions require it determined by pre-programed maps based on sound theory and years of testing.

The SE6 transmission is designed to address every challenge in the SE5 transmission and is an ingenious design.

 

[Knizar]

I like the sound of "jjc54"s theory BEST!

 

[Peter Aawen]

That is true enough about the 'Clutch' @jjc54, but you should notice how @BajaRon's post above mentions that they "... have gotten some bikes in with a great deal of carbon buildup on the valves and pistons. ..." - then shortly after, follows that with "... Some will run in 6th gear and instead of downshifting to pass, they just twist the throttle. Just because the 1330 doesn't necessarily complain, doesn't mean you aren't causing a problem. ..." before going on to mention how these heavy Spyders need horsepower and torque delivery to accelerate & drive them around; both of which, funnily enough, come from a combination of the gear selection and engine revs!

So while the 'Clutch' might survive putting along in 6th gear around town at whatever revs (probably less than 3500) and the engine will probably even start to pull away if the operator just twists the throttle without slipping/damaging the clutch, that doesn't mean that doing that's not really all that great for the ENGINE, even with the 'fail-safe downshift' feature built into the shift control for the trans, cos that still lets the engine lug along for a second or two before the fail-safe change down actually occurs, because the gear/revs/speed trigger for the downshift is set just above the 'this is gonna stall out the engine' level!

So taking a little liberty and adding to what Ron posted above " ... Just because the 1330 engine and its clutch doesn't necessarily complain, doesn't mean you aren't causing a problem. ..."

But if, now that you know the clutch is up for it but in the long run, the engine may not really like it, you really want to ride around lugging your engine like that, and maybe contribute to some of that "carbon build-up on the valves and pistons" that Ron mentions they are beginning to see more of in Spyders being brought into his shop, I guess it's your Spyder, so that's your choice. It certainly wouldn't be my choice (& it isn't! ) but if you really want to do that to your Spyder, just cos you know the clutch is up for it, thennnn OKaaayyy...

Just Sayin'

 

[jjc54]

Just trying to understand the meaning of the original post. I definitely don't contribute to any carbon build up on mine.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just trying to understand the meaning of the original post. I definitely don't contribute to any carbon build up on mine.

I too think that particular info is a carry-over that was originally intended to be only about the V-Twin motors, which are high revving motors, and their Centrifugal clutches, that has somehow erroneously ended up being included in the info about the 1330's with their engine oil pressure based hydraulic clutches. Or maybe it originally included the correct revs for the 1330 motors, only to be changed at some stage to match the V-twin rev requirements, possibly because too many people were getting them mixed up - we've seen that here on the Forum often!

But despite the fact that the clutch on a 1330 SE6 isn't going to slip like that, the point Ron made about the engine and carbon build up is important! You can see from the comparison graph that @JayBros posted above, that the 1330's are delivering substantial torque from right off idle, climbing rapidly to about 2500 rpm, flattening out there until just under 4000 rpm, before climbing rapidly again to a peak at about 4500 rpm, then slowly declining but still continuing in very usable levels right out to 7500 rpm or so - and because of its nature, the 1330 clutch is basically 'locked' all the while that there's engine oil pressure, so it won't slip, and because of the TCM control, neither will it stall out the engine, even if the engine is riding the ragged edge of lugging &/or pinging! And it's that last 'even if' bit which has always been at least partly responsible for causing the sort of carbon build up Ron is reporting seeing more of!

We're seeing it more & more here in Oz, too - those riders who don't keep the revs up on the 1330 SE6's and maybe never push their Spyders into their upper rev range occasionally are finding that they're slowly choking their Spyder's performance, especially those who keep their revs low but run as quickly up thru the gears as the TCM will allow, basically as soon as they start rolling, and then pretty much stay in the highest gear they can hold for whatever speed, using the throttle juuust enough to deliver the torque they need to do whatever they want to without quite triggering the TCM to initiate that 'fail-safe' down-shift!! The loss of performance due to excessive carbon build up might be slow & almost imperceptible, but it's demonstrably there; and like Ron suggests, it isn't (usually) due to excessive clutch wear &/or slip either! When we go looking here, we're also seeing more choked engines than we are clutch issues...

That's a good thing tho, cos once the operator realises they're the cause of this carbon build up, if they realise and get onto it soon enough, they can pretty much reverse the early stages simply by wringing the throttle a bit harder and going for a 'more spirited ride' every now and then, saaay, once a month or so. Sure, the 1330 engine has scads of torque right off idle, altho it is an inherently lazy motor, and you can easily baby it way too much cos it'll just do it! But if you make the effort to get everything nice and hot and explore the upper limits of the rev range every now and then, it will cook off and blow all the carbon and the cobwebs out - of you AND the Spyder!!

Just Sayin'

 

[strykerAKAmack]

What??? My F3S has more than three gears! 3rd is good for 70 mph on the backroads round here!!

 

[bhfromme]

Just trying to understand the meaning of the original post. I definitely don't contribute to any carbon build up on mine.

All I meant by the original post was to simply share what I had read on the Monster Fuel website about how running at low RPMs effects clutch longevity.

But since posting that jjc54 shared this piece from Lamonster's website: "The clutch in the SE6 transmission is 100% dynamic. It is completely controlled by the TCM and free from centrifugal or mechanical spring engagement. The springs in the SE6 clutch are used to release or disengage the clutch, not engage it as in SM5."

So that piece from Lamonster makes it clear that the Monster Fuel paragraph was written for the old SE5 transmissions and DOES NOT apply to the SE6s.

But Bajaron weighed in to talk about how running at low RPMs is creating carbon buildup on valves and cylinders so even though the transmissions have been redesigned to handle low RPMs, running below 3500 RPM is still creating long-term problems for these engines.

I am not a mechanic and barely trust myself to install a cup holder on my Spyder. I rely on what I learn here and this thread has been extremely helpful. Thanks to everyone and for your engine's sake, keep those RPMs up!

 

[bhfromme]

All I meant by the original post was to simply share what I had read on the Monster Fuel website about how running at low RPMs affects clutch longevity.

But since posting that jjc54 shared this piece from Lamonster's website: "The clutch in the SE6 transmission is 100% dynamic. It is completely controlled by the TCM and free from centrifugal or mechanical spring engagement. The springs in the SE6 clutch are used to release or disengage the clutch, not engage it as in SM5."

So that piece from Lamonster makes it clear that the Monster Fuel paragraph was written for the old SE5 transmissions and DOES NOT apply to the SE6s.

But Bajaron weighed in to talk about how running at low RPMs is creating carbon buildup on valves and cylinders so even though the transmissions have been redesigned to handle low RPMs, running below 3500 RPM is still creating long-term problems for these engines.

I am not a mechanic and barely trust myself to install a cup holder on my Spyder. I rely on what I learn here and this thread has been extremely helpful. Thanks to everyone and for your engine's sake, keep those RPMs up!