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My 2011 RSS is Running Rich, but I can't open the older threads on this!? Any ideas?

Sedanpilot

New member
My 2011 RSS is running rich, black smoke on acceleration, so I searched the forum and found this:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?19691-Exhaust-Y-Gasket-replacement" - only problem is that when I try to open it, I get "OOPS, can't find it"...

I ordered the Honda gaskets and I'd really like to see what's on that forum thread. Any idea about how to open it? Thanx. David.
 
Not sure about the web URL. The Honda gasket is a good idea. But it isn't going to fix your over rich air fuel mixture. You may have a fuel injector hanging open. You may be able to pull spark plugs and find out which cylinder it is. It might be both!
 
Are the O2 sensors still operational? If disconnected, most ECU's will throw too rich conditions to make sure the engine won't burn itself up.
 
Thanx Ron... I bought BUDS and when I cut out one cylinder, or the other, they sound the same... It has a "galloping" sound when idling and blows black smoke when accelerating... It sat for five years with fuel in it and I got the old fuel out and replaced it... Wouldn't run even with the new fuel, so I pulled the rails and injectors, "cleaned" the injectors, replaced the coil and spark plugs and now it runs, just rich... My injector 'cleaning" consisted of spraying both ends with starting fluid and "tapping' them to remove any debris... The injectors didn't click on BUDS before I "cleaned" them, they click now...

BTW, I don't get any "faults" on BUDS...

Are the O2 sensors still operational? If disconnected, most ECU will throw too rich conditions to make sure the engine won't burn itself up.
To be honest, I don't know how to test them...

That works, thank you!
 
My 2011 RSS is running rich, black smoke on acceleration, so I searched the forum and found this:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?19691-Exhaust-Y-Gasket-replacement" - only problem is that when I try to open it, I get "OOPS, can't find it"...

I ordered the Honda gaskets and I'd really like to see what's on that forum thread. Any idea about how to open it? Thanx. David.
If the fuel injectors were gummed up and not operational, then the fuel pressure regulator is suspect, as well. Pressure too high. If your version of regulator is the one with the vacuum line to it, they degrade and need replaced. Same for the MAP sensor and its associated vacuum lines. Continue with fuel system cleaning such as Seafoam or Techron or B-12.

The 2011 RS has a single O2 sensor, located downstream of the Y-pipe, in between the Y-pipe and the inlet to the muffler. It is tested with BUDS. More on that later.

Yes, an exhaust system leak from a leaking gasket can cause a mixture problem with the O2 sensor operation and engine mixture. Much has been written about the subject. Upstream of the O2 sensor, air is drawn into the exhaust line from the leak. That happens because in between piston power/pressure pulses, the pressure inside the pipe drops. This, combined with the Venturi effect of the gases flowing past the leak, causes air to be drawn into the pipe.

If the leak is upstream of the O2 sensor, the sensor “sees” an increase in O2 level, which indicates a lean condition. Remember that the ACTUAL combustion condition hasn’t changed. Thus it’s a false lean condition due to the air leak. The O2 sensor output voltage goes down, the ECU sees the voltage drop, and increases fuel delivery to try to raise O2 sensor voltage back to normal. The actual operating condition of the engine becomes rich, even though the ECU believes there is a lean condition.

If the air leak is minor enough, the increase in fuel flow and rich condition of the engine, can rebalance the O2 concentration in the exhaust pipe. The O2 sensor voltage can be returned to normal, and the engine will operate rich with no codes, because the ECU is happy. If the air leak is severe enough, the false lean condition cannot be corrected. At that point, the engine will operate rich but throw you a lean code - yes, a Lean code because that is what the ECU thinks the problem is. So, replacing exhaust gaskets, provided one is leaking in the first place, can correct a rich condition.

To check O2 sensor operation with BUDS, hook up to the bike and access the bike’s information. Go to the Monitoring Tab at the top, and the ECM Tab at the bottom of the page. Look over the page for a second because it’s very busy. Down at the bottom area you should have a little green light to tell you when the O2 sensor comes on line. You might also have a text box area a little to the left of that for O2 sensor status. Go ahead and start up the engine. The text box will display the current Status as the sensor warms up and comes on-line, and you will get a green light if everything is OK. Give it some time, of course. This page will also give you a chance to observe MAP sensor readings and see if they make sense.

Do yourself a favor and get a service manual. 25 bucks. Good Luck.

https://canammanuals.com/product/20...air-and-maintenance-manual-master-collection/
 
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If the fuel injectors were gummed up and not operational, then the fuel pressure regulator is suspect, as well. Pressure too high. If your version of regulator is the one with the vacuum line to it, they degrade and need replaced. Same for the MAP sensor and its associated vacuum lines. Continue with fuel system cleaning such as Seafoam or Techron or B-12.

The 2011 RS has a single O2 sensor, located downstream of the Y-pipe, in between the Y-pipe and the inlet to the muffler. It is tested with BUDS. More on that later.

Yes, an exhaust system leak from a leaking gasket can cause a mixture problem with the O2 sensor operation and engine mixture. Much has been written about the subject. Upstream of the O2 sensor, air is drawn into the exhaust line from the leak. That happens because in between piston power/pressure pulses, the pressure inside the pipe drops. This, combined with the Venturi effect of the gases flowing past the leak, causes air to be drawn into the pipe.

If the leak is upstream of the O2 sensor, the sensor “sees” an increase in O2 level, which indicates a lean condition. Remember that the ACTUAL combustion condition hasn’t changed. Thus it’s a false lean condition due to the air leak. The O2 sensor output voltage goes down, the ECU sees the voltage drop, and increases fuel delivery to try to raise O2 sensor voltage back to normal. The actual operating condition of the engine becomes rich, even though the ECU believes there is a lean condition.

If the air leak is minor enough, the increase in fuel flow and rich condition of the engine, can rebalance the O2 concentration in the exhaust pipe. The O2 sensor voltage can be returned to normal, and the engine will operate rich with no codes, because the ECU is happy. If the air leak is severe enough, the false lean condition cannot be corrected. At that point, the engine will operate rich but throw you a lean code - yes a lean code because that is what the ECU thinks the problem is. So, yes, replacing exhaust gaskets, provided one is leaking in the first place, can correct a rich condition.

To check O2 sensor operation with BUDS, hook up to the bike and access the bike’s information. Go to the Monitoring Tab at the top, and the ECM Tab at the bottom of the page. Look over the page for a second because it’s very busy. Down at the bottom area you should have a little green light to tell you when the O2 sensor comes on line. You might also have a text box area a little to the left of that for O2 sensor status. Go ahead and start up the engine. The text box will display the current Status as the sensor warms up and comes on-line, and you will get a green light if everything is OK. Give it some time, of course. This page will also give you a chance to observe MAP sensor readings and see if they make sense.

Do yourself a favor and get a service manual. 25 bucks. Good Luck.

https://canammanuals.com/product/20...air-and-maintenance-manual-master-collection/
Thanx Doug, great information! I do have the service manual, but you made sense of it... Thanx again.
 
We use a sonic cleaner on fuel injectors. We also bench test them afterwards. On rare occasions, we have to run one through the cleaning cycle again. They may click open and closed, but they are not making a fine, even, spray. Sometimes they are just bad and have to be replaced. I'm not saying that what you did isn't sufficient, it might be... But if the spray pattern is not fine and evenly dispersed, you'll end up with unburned fuel, which can give you a rich condition.
 
We use a sonic cleaner on fuel injectors. We also bench test them afterwards. On rare occasions, we have to run one through the cleaning cycle again. They may click open and closed, but they are not making a fine, even, spray. Sometimes they are just bad and have to be replaced. I'm not saying that what you did isn't sufficient, it might be... But if the spray pattern is not fine and evenly dispersed, you'll end up with unburned fuel, which can give you a rich condition.
Thanx again Ron... I used to clean small airplane engine injectors in a sonic cleaner with Hoppes cleaner... I thought about soaking the Spyder injectors in Hoppes, but I was afraid it might attack the plastic... I'll go to town and get a sonic cleaner this weekend... I just replaced the fuel pump in my Wife's 2013 RT and now I'm fighting the RSS battle, no fun...
 
Hello Ron,
My 2008 GS sat for a few years, I replaced the fuel, it starts and runs except it’s hard to get going, but it runs great at around 5000 rpm. Any suggestions? Injectors??

BTW, I remember way back when at the time Lamonster started this site and you guys joined forces. 😂
 
Hello Ron,
My 2008 GS sat for a few years, I replaced the fuel, it starts and runs except it’s hard to get going, but it runs great at around 5000 rpm. Any suggestions? Injectors??

BTW, I remember way back when at the time Lamonster started this site and you guys joined forces. 😂
Well, Lamont & I joined forces long before he built this website. We've been like family for a very long time.

It's difficult to diagnose over the Internet. But I would start with the 2 small vacuum hoses on the left side of the throttle body. If they have not been replaced, they can give you fits at lower RPM's. Also check the rubber boots that connect the throttle body to the intake manifold. These can get weather cracked and start to leak. I recently had to replace these on my 2008 GS.

Could be spark plug wires, especially if they are OEM. The original spark plugs were junk, so if you get that far, I highly recommend a set of NGK IX Iridium DCPR8EIX. The book calls for 9's, (a colder plug). But if you are not running hard all the time, the 8's are a better choice.

It may be your injectors. It wouldn't hurt to run some Chevron Techron (6oz. to a full tank) in 2 successive fuel ups.). If they are just somewhat dirty, this could clean them up for you. This can also clean up your fuel system in general. Which may be helpful having sat so long.

Bad gas or a clogged fuel filter are also a possibility. If you don't know how long it's been since the fuel filter was changed. This can be cheap insurance.
 
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Well, Lamont & I joined forces long before he built this website. We've been like family for a very long time.

It's difficult to diagnose over the Internet. But I would start with the 2 small vacuum hoses on the left side of the throttle body. If they have not been replaced, they can give you fits at lower RPM's. Also check the rubber boots that connect the throttle body to the intake manifold. These can get weather cracked and start to leak. I recently had to replace these on my 2008 GS.

Could be spark plug wires, especially if they are OEM. The original spark plugs were junk, so if you get that far, I highly recommend a set of NGK IX Iridium DCPR8EIX. The book calls for 9's, (a colder plug). But if you are not running hard all the time, the 8's are a better choice.

It may be your injectors. It wouldn't hurt to run some Chevron Techron (6oz. to a full tank) in 2 successive fuel ups.). If they are just somewhat dirty, this could clean them up for you. This can also clean up your fuel system in general. Which may be helpful having sat so long.

Bad gas or a clogged fuel filter are also a possibility. If you don't know how long it's been since the fuel filter was changed. This can be cheap insurance.
Hi Ron,
Thanks for your tips. I will definitely check it out!!

Andy
 
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