Results of Amsoil 10W-40 lab test @ 4000 Mi

[ulflyer]

POST #57, use the link, under specs , the 2 nd line down : SM SL SJ SH -----or maybe I'm not reading it right ????? :gaah: :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:....I think I am ....Mikeguyver :thumbup:

Oh shoot, you got me on this one BK!!! pps: I think maybe I was thinking of the fact rotella had been upgraded to Jaso MA2.
(Had to come up with some excuse!)
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDO...iple_Protection_15W-40_(CJ-4)_(en-US)_TDS.pdf

 

[Jeriatric]

Ratings

30 December 2008 - 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Richard Moore, Staff Engineer
Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.
Westhollow Technology Center, PO Box 4327, Houston, TX 77210, United States of America


Date: 1/18/2008


We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple
Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) ★Rotella T(6)Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.




All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test.




Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA.




However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T(6) Synthetic ★5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."


If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
Thank you for your interest in Shell products.




●Note: rating update since 2008 - T6 is now a JASO, MA, &


"MA2" rated oil.

 

[Jeriatric]

ALL ABOUT OIL

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Personally found his research and discovery worth the read. You, may, or, may not.

This page Copyright © 2003-2011, by Mark Lawrence of calsci.

 

[BajaRon]

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Personally found his research and discovery worth the read. You, may, or, may not.

This page Copyright © 2003-2011, by Mark Lawrence of calsci.

That article is a bit dated but still has generally sound advise. There are several paragraphs which deal specifically with motorcycles (which he correctly explains are a much different environment for motor oil than a car engine).

Here he explains how they create multi-grade oil. All oils naturally get thinner as they heat up. But what is needed is an oil that starts out thin when cold and gets thicker as it heats up.

To make a 10w-40 oil, the manufacturer would start out with a 10 weight oil as the base stock. All by itself, this oil would thin out so much at normal operating temperatures that the oil film would be useless. So, they add these very special very long molecules, the VIIs. The VII molecules are as much as 1000 times as long as an oil molecule. The VII molecules curl up in a little ball at room temperature, but as the temperature gets higher they uncurl and stretch out, like a cat sleeping in the sunlight. The more stretched out the molecule is, the more it impedes the normal flow of the oil, thus raising the effective viscosity. Now, this sounds just a little too good to be true. Well, there are two catches: first, these molecules are not lubricants, so the more of them that you add the less oil you have sitting around lubricating things. Secondly, these VII molecules can be broken into pieces by various pressures and forces, like being squeezed through the transmission gears in a motorcycle or the hydraulic valves in a diesel engine. Every time a VII molecule gets broken, the oil loses some of its high temperature viscosity. Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine.

 

[Ramjet]

Heck my 750 hp Mustang Shelby does not shear oil like these BRP Rotax motors do maybe the design is the real issue? High Rev running hot not what I call a motor that is easy to maintain a or cheap for that matter. I thought the 1330 was such great improvement over the previous years?

 

[BajaRon]

Heck my 750 hp Mustang Shelby does not shear oil like these BRP Rotax motors do maybe the design is the real issue? High Rev running hot not what I call a motor that is easy to maintain a or cheap for that matter. I thought the 1330 was such great improvement over the previous years?

It's not the engine really. It's the transmission. Your Shelby doesn't run the engine oil through the transmission gears or you'd have the same problem only worse because of the HP and torque.

It's just the nature of the beast. In a perfect world you'd have a a compartment for the engine, a different compartment for the clutch and another compartment for the transmission. That way each could be lubricated with the optimum oil product. But that would add weight and size which is unacceptable in a motorcycle. So, instead we ask 1 oil to do 3 very different jobs well. That is a tall order.

Even the best oils struggle. And lesser oils fail.

 

[Jeriatric]

Freelance Complaining

Heck my 750 hp Mustang Shelby does not shear oil like these BRP Rotax motors do maybe the design is the real issue? High Rev running hot not what I call a motor that is easy to maintain a or cheap for that matter. I thought the 1330 was such great improvement over the previous years?

If you feel the need to continue to take swipes at BRP....please make them intelligible. The 990 rotax doesn’t shear oil any worse than the KTM 990. They are both free reving twins. As far as the 1330 and how well it behaves in the spyder, long term, has yet to be seen. Only time will tell. jm2c Shoot higher. :doorag:

 

[BajaRon]

Not to nit pick or discredit your words, the Honda CRF450r four stroke MX bike was designed with separate engine oil and gearbox oil and still 11 years later has kept this design. It allows the engine to run on the best oil with no clutch problems, and the gearbox is able to run a properly rated gear oil. It can be done, but is not the norm.

It is leaning towards the simple and best will be a proper break in followed by quality oil, changed more often than the recommended interval.

PK

True, there were, and still are some, that have these 3 (or 2 of the 3) separated. My Triumph and BSA had 3 separate compartments. Many Harley's and other motorcycles did too. But it is rare today as size and weight have become more and more important. The great improvements in lubricants allows them to combine these functions.

But the biggest factor is still the transmission, not the engine.

 

[Ramjet]

One oil cannot do it all Ron I agree. But lower reeving motors will not shear the oil like the Rotax. Sure some other MFG have high rev motor that suffer the same characteristics. If the motor is running at 4000 and you shift like most do with the handlebar shifting this clutch plates and tranny gears are turning at high RPM.

He he he he the Shelby does not get babied but it does get Amzoil.........


But be clear here jerbear we are talking BRP.

I ran a Victory and did several oil samples at 4500 miles they share the oil unlike the Harley's and never not one time in this interval changes did I have shear. Not once. The point is the lower reeving motors will shear like the Rotax the Victory is one oil bike as well.

 

[Bob Denman]

What's your point? :dontknow:

And now that you've sold your :spyder2:; why has your trashing of the bikes, their design,and BRP been ramped up to an entirely new level?

 

[DrewNJ]

One oil cannot do it all Ron I agree. But lower reeving motors will not shear the oil like the Rotax. Sure some other MFG have high rev motor that suffer the same characteristics. If the motor is running at 4000 and you shift like most do with the handlebar shifting this clutch plates and tranny gears are turning at high RPM.

He he he he the Shelby does not get babied but it does get Amzoil.........


But be clear here jerbear we are talking BRP.

I ran a Victory and did several oil samples at 4500 miles they share the oil unlike the Harley's and never not one time in this interval changes did I have shear. Not once. The point is the lower reeving motors will shear like the Rotax the Victory is one oil bike as well.

wow, you have really become anti-brp/anti-rotax recently...so sorry that you have become so bitter...

the rotax vtwin has been used in the Aprilia bikes with no specific oil related issues for years so you can't over think the oil.

Something to keep in mind is that Aprilia specs 15/50 oil. BRP doesn't like to stock a lot of oil on their shelves so they are notorious for specing one common oil for multiple platforms, even if it may not really be the best weight to run.

All oil shears and breaks down. A lighter weight oil will shear faster. Higher revs and a wet clutch will shear it faster. it is what it is.
IMHO fuel dilution is a bigger concern in all gas engines and your not filtering fuel dilution.... which is why I'm skeptical of the 9k+ OCI in the new machines.

personally, I do 3k mile changes with the BRP kits and am comfortable with that. a good friend runs the spec 4.6k on the same oil with with a lot of miles on his machine. if I were extending my OCI I would feel more comfortable adding a quart of 20/50 vs. worrying about what brand oil I was using...

still, probably the best idea is to change the oil once in awhile and use what works for you.

ride more, worry less.....[emoji106]

Sent from my Venue 8 3830 using Tapatalk

 

[BajaRon]

Agree, was not nit picking .

Too bad Rotax didn't design a split system with the 1330, regardless, as mentioned, other machines run long, far, and fast with shared systems.

PK

Didn't take it that way at all. You are correct in what you said.

 

[den1953]

Unit Construction Engines

My Victory is the same way with the engine, tranny and primary all using the same oil, so essentially the same thing. I am going 6000 miles on Amsoil 10W40 motorcycle oil made for use with wet clutches. I am changing the filter at 3000 half-way through the 6000 mile interval. From what you have been saying, this oil is breaking down some by 4000 miles. Am i risking damage by going 6000 miles on my Amsoil? I know this isn't a Can AM ACE 1330 but there is similarity in the two engine designs.

 

[Bob Denman]

:dontknow: My guess... take a sample, and have it analyzed. :thumbup:

 

[ulflyer]

My Victory is the same way with the engine, tranny and primary all using the same oil, so essentially the same thing. I am going 6000 miles on Amsoil 10W40 motorcycle oil made for use with wet clutches. I am changing the filter at 3000 half-way through the 6000 mile interval. From what you have been saying, this oil is breaking down some by 4000 miles. Am i risking damage by going 6000 miles on my Amsoil? I know this isn't a Can AM ACE 1330 but there is similarity in the two engine designs.

Den, from what I've read on BITOG forum, the Victory is pretty easy on oil, but to be sure, I'd strongly suggest anyone that has concerns similar to yours, to pick up an oil test kit and mail it off. That way you'll know what the viscosity is at a giving mileage point, plus some useful data on how your engine is wearing. I use the Wix kits found online. Amsoil distributors might have kits, and NAPA and O'reilly has, or can get them for you. Roughly about $25. This is the only way you can get a definitive answer to your question; anything else in conjecture. Let us know how you make out.

 

[BajaRon]

As already mentioned, getting a sample tested is the only way to really know. Different riding conditions and even riding styles can make a difference in how long your oil lasts. Depending completely on someone else's experience may not be the best way to go.

Plus, the more people who test their oil, the better data base we can establish to advise others.

 

[Jeriatric]

One more 'dated' but relevant oil study

"The fastest and most significant drop in the viscosity of petroleum-based oils used in motorcycles occurs during the first 800 miles (or less) of use."

Hope you find the read worth your time. :doorag:

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm .

 

[MikeT]

Hope you find the read worth your time. :doorag:
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm .

Thanks Jerbear for the interesting read. The obvious million dollar question is: can Mobil 1 be used in a Spyder????????
Mike

 

[Jeriatric]

Choices

Thanks Jerbear for the interesting read. The obvious million dollar question is: can Mobil 1 be used in a Spyder????????
Mike

I would say - Yes. (Providing the version selected meets BRP's oil requirement criteria.)

That said. It seems brand is less important than ones choice of the base stock they may prefer to run (dyno/syn). Equally important to base stock is the additive package a given brand offers. Followed by, each individuals decision on how many miles to run between oil changes. Example: Change oil every 3K and filters every other OC (or 6K). Choices :doorag:

 

[Jeriatric]

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

Thanks Jerbear for the interesting read. The obvious million dollar question is: can Mobil 1 be used in a Spyder????????
Mike

Without sounding like a smarty pants, are you specifically referring to Mobil1 4t 10w-40. If so, what I read says yes.

PK

I would say - Yes. (Providing the version selected meets BRP's oil requirement criteria.)

That said. It seems brand is less important than ones choice of the base stock they may prefer to run (dyno/syn). Equally important to base stock is the additive package a given brand offers. Followed by, each individuals decision on how many miles to run between oil changes. Example: Change oil every 3K and filters every other OC (or 6K). Choices :doorag: