SM6 vs SE6

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

CONCERNING THIS THREAD

:bdh::bdh::bdh::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: .........jmho.......Mike :thumbup:

 

[hellraiza]

.
I am looking at the Goldwing conversions too. I was hoping to have something off the shelf so to speak. How much would a pipe and free flow air cleaner open it up? I had a brand new Harley years ago that felt kind of like this. A set of pipes, high flow cleaner and jet kit later and it was like a whole different bike. Initially it felt like you were really pushing it to cruise at 75, after opening it up 75 was effortless and there was enough power to accelerate out of harms way if needed.

I see a lot of people talking about handling, that's not it at all! I've ridden quads most of my life....same thing. The problem is that it is gutless over 65ish and that just plain scares me on the freeway here.

I'm in a metro area as well, Miami highways mean cruising on my 2012 RS-S SM5 at 80-90mph constantly, and its got enough pep to get you out of harm's way even at those speeds.

I also put over 2k miles recently on an F6B in a week trip out through Utah & Yellowstone, and I've test ridden an F3-S with the SM6 and had it up to highway speeds. The 1330 definitely has more torque than my 998 but no where near the smoothness of the Goldwing.. Maybe it's because i'm used to the 998 liking the upper RPM range or the GW being so quite and effortless at those speeds, but the 1330 just sounded like it was struggling even tho the numbers were rising. This alone made me keep the RS-S, and once I sell this I'll probably go back to two wheels. I enjoy the adrenaline rush and I just didn't get it from the F3. I'd love to thrown a 1330 in an RS and see what it can really do though haha

 

[fritzer1]

.
I am looking at the Goldwing conversions too. I was hoping to have something off the shelf so to speak. How much would a pipe and free flow air cleaner open it up? I had a brand new Harley years ago that felt kind of like this. A set of pipes, high flow cleaner and jet kit later and it was like a whole different bike. Initially it felt like you were really pushing it to cruise at 75, after opening it up 75 was effortless and there was enough power to accelerate out of harms way if needed.

I see a lot of people talking about handling, that's not it at all! I've ridden quads most of my life....same thing. The problem is that it is gutless over 65ish and that just plain scares me on the freeway here.

Hey Basil -
Keep your Goldwing, and check out Tilting Motor Works, as mentioned earlier. Forget the usual trike conversion kits, and have a truly stable "LEANING" 3-wheel Goldwing. I'm a little guy, at 145lbs, and the Goldwing is much too daunting for me to handle, but with TMW's 2-wheel kit up front, making it a leaning reverse trike, I am reconsidering. You will lose nothing with your GW, but will have added more stability, traction and braking.

Otherwise, 2016 F3T manual, as it will have lower gearing with the 89tooth rear sprocket. I believe the 2017 will have the 79tooth sprocket, as the RT models.

 

[Saluda]

Pulling a trailer with a Spyder is like pushing two barn doors down the road. Or up the road.

I haven't found that to be true.

 

[Buckeye Bleau]

Do yourself a favor don't buy a Spyder ....... :lecturef_smilie:...... Mike :thumbup:

:agree: Frankly I find it hard to believe I am saying that but my thoughts exactly!

Joe

 

[Bob Denman]

Isn't it about a 50 pound difference ?

Per the 2016 brochures: 162 pounds.
(1012, versus 850...)

 

[Saluda]

I was comparing the F3 T & limited to RT limited ('16 catalog also)

948 to 1012

 

[StanProff]

In the background just hanging around, long winded.

I haven't been on the forum much for quite some time but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of the "under powered" 1330 RT. Also throw in a comment about the SE transmission. First of all I've owned a 998 RT SM and now have a '14 1330 RT SE (I pull the 622 trailer as well when traveling). Yep! the 1330 is not going to win many top end races, it is not as fast as a sport bike nor does it have the top end of many cruisers or a gold wing. I ride with both. I just got back from a trip from Upper East Tennessee(near Virginia) to Waco Texas and back. I was running with a friend who rides a Victory Cross country. Running on cruise control at 75-80 for most of the trip, pulling the trailer with luggage so the weight of trailer, 250 lbs, luggage consisting of two suit cases, extra helmets, extra leather coats due to cool weather and many other items that added at least 50-60 lbs in the trailer. Conservative estimate would be 300 lbs in tow. On one occasion I ran up to 102 indicated because I got mad at an erratic driver and just took off. I know folks, I shouldn't have gone that fast but it just happened. Anyway, The 1330 will tow a trailer at 102 mph. Fact. Would it go much faster than that. No. But how much faster do you want to go anyway? Underpowered? No, that is relative. SE transmission? My first Spyder RT was a SM I have gotten used to the SE and now would have it hands down over the SM, I've ridden two wheelers for 50 years and still own 6. It will take off and leave most cruisers behind simply due to the speed at which you can go through the gears. My two wheel cruiser buddies will attest to that. They have ridden the Spyder and gotten off saying "no wonder they can't stick with me through the gears" due to the fact that it shifts so quickly. Finally you have to know how to ride the 1330 with the SE trans. Never let off of the gas when hitting the trigger. (you don't do it in your automatic car, why would people do it on a spyder). Never had a torque problem. Give it the gas and it pulls. Trailer or no trailer.
I am very happy with the 1330 engine, of course I never expected it to outrun my Honda V4 or the CX turbo I have but it is a good compromise of comfort, handling, safety above any other two wheeler or 3 wheeler and a great touring machine. We ran two 700 plus mile days on the recent trip and loved every mile of it. A Spyder may not be the machine for a lot of people so simply buy what your comfortable with. Goldwings are great! If you want to run comfortable at 120 mph that is the bike for you. If you want to make some compromises but make safety a priority I Don't see anything equal to a Spyder, from anti lock brakes, traction control, stability control, digital power steering etc. Remember, the Spyder is engineered from the ground up to be what it is. It is not a kit. I like that.
Okay, I made up for being silent for a while by writing this book so I'll stop.

 

[Cruzr Joe]

I haven't been on the forum much for quite some time but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of the "under powered" 1330 RT. Also throw in a comment about the SE transmission. First of all I've owned a 998 RT SM and now have a '14 1330 RT SE (I pull the 622 trailer as well when traveling). Yep! the 1330 is not going to win many top end races, it is not as fast as a sport bike nor does it have the top end of many cruisers or a gold wing. I ride with both. I just got back from a trip from Upper East Tennessee(near Virginia) to Waco Texas and back. I was running with a friend who rides a Victory Cross country. Running on cruise control at 75-80 for most of the trip, pulling the trailer with luggage so the weight of trailer, 250 lbs, luggage consisting of two suit cases, extra helmets, extra leather coats due to cool weather and many other items that added at least 50-60 lbs in the trailer. Conservative estimate would be 300 lbs in tow. On one occasion I ran up to 102 indicated because I got mad at an erratic driver and just took off. I know folks, I shouldn't have gone that fast but it just happened. Anyway, The 1330 will tow a trailer at 102 mph. Fact. Would it go much faster than that. No. But how much faster do you want to go anyway? Underpowered? No, that is relative. SE transmission? My first Spyder RT was a SM I have gotten used to the SE and now would have it hands down over the SM, I've ridden two wheelers for 50 years and still own 6. It will take off and leave most cruisers behind simply due to the speed at which you can go through the gears. My two wheel cruiser buddies will attest to that. They have ridden the Spyder and gotten off saying "no wonder they can't stick with me through the gears" due to the fact that it shifts so quickly. Finally you have to know how to ride the 1330 with the SE trans. Never let off of the gas when hitting the trigger. (you don't do it in your automatic car, why would people do it on a spyder). Never had a torque problem. Give it the gas and it pulls. Trailer or no trailer.
I am very happy with the 1330 engine, of course I never expected it to outrun my Honda V4 or the CX turbo I have but it is a good compromise of comfort, handling, safety above any other two wheeler or 3 wheeler and a great touring machine. We ran two 700 plus mile days on the recent trip and loved every mile of it. A Spyder may not be the machine for a lot of people so simply buy what your comfortable with. Goldwings are great! If you want to run comfortable at 120 mph that is the bike for you. If you want to make some compromises but make safety a priority I Don't see anything equal to a Spyder, from anti lock brakes, traction control, stability control, digital power steering etc. Remember, the Spyder is engineered from the ground up to be what it is. It is not a kit. I like that.
Okay, I made up for being silent for a while by writing this book so I'll stop.

:agree::agree::agree:, Very well put

Cruzr Joe

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

In my comments above about a lack of top end power while pulling a trailer I should have qualified my comments. The trailer I've been pulling is my 'tent on a trailer' which is not an aerodynamic design at all and weighs over 400 lbs. I would imagine that the 622 or RT trailer probably does pull with less effort because they are pretty well aerodynamically designed, and probably in most cases not carrying as much weight.

 

[StanProff]

clarification

In my comments above about a lack of top end power while pulling a trailer I should have qualified my comments. The trailer I've been pulling is my 'tent on a trailer' which is not an aerodynamic design at all and weighs over 400 lbs. I would imagine that the 622 or RT trailer probably does pull with less effort because they are pretty well aerodynamically designed, and probably in most cases not carrying as much weight.

I understand what your saying Idaho. The 622 can-am trailer is tucked in behind the spyder very well and, as you mentioned, it is a good aerodynamic design a- be- it a very expensive trailer so it SHOULD be designed well. I have pulled this trailer for many miles over the past 5 years beginning with the 2010 RTS SM and now with the 2014 RTS SE. Probably a total of at least 15,000 miles towing it. (and yes, I have pulled the wheels and packed the wheel bearings a couple of times). This trailer has always preformed very well, it tows great with no bouncing or swaying (most of the load must be over the axels and not loaded to the rear or like any trailer, it will sway) and the specs say not over a 40lb tongue weight. Following these guidelines I can take this trailer anywhere, curves are no issue. It hugs the road just like the spyder and speed is no issue as it is solid as a rock. You seriously cannot tell it is in tow most of the time. The Spyder max rating for towing is 400 lbs total with the trailer including the load in it. I can imagine that if I was maxed out on load it would make a difference for sure. I find that 50 to 60 lbs of load is usually the max that I need. 50 lbs of clothes is a lot when you get right down to weighting them. I can't see ever loading the trailer with a 100 or 150 lbs to put it to the 400 lb limit as the trailer weights 250 empty. Like you said, your tent trailer is much bigger and starts out at 400 lbs or so empty. I am sure you also utilize space in it to carry other needed items while traveling. I've always wanted a tent trailer but held back due to the weight. Anyway travel as light as you can, be safe and enjoy the ride. If I can find a tent trailer that is in the 300 lb range I might give it a try.

 

[ARtraveler]

Well...just finished reading the two plus pages of back and forth.

The :ani29::spyder2::f_spider: in any form is not going to be a great bike for everyone. I have seen similar threads where someone's mind is made up regardless of any arguments.

This is a site where most will vigorously defend their :ani29:. I have had five assorted since their inception and I like em. :yes: My likes are not necessarily the same as others.

I experienced RS versions (2), RT 998 versions (2) and also a RT-S 1330 version. I like the 1330 SE6 better than all previous.

It works for me, but I am not going to try to sell anyone who sees an entirely different machine after a 300 mile or so test drive. I also have experience with big iron. Yamaha Venture 1200, Kawi Voyager (I think it was 1200), Vulcan Nomad (1500), and Kawi Vulcan LTD (2000 & 900). They all had their places but now its :spyder: time for me.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Like you said, your tent trailer is much bigger and starts out at 400 lbs or so empty. I am sure you also utilize space in it to carry other needed items while traveling. I've always wanted a tent trailer but held back due to the weight. Anyway travel as light as you can, be safe and enjoy the ride. If I can find a tent trailer that is in the 300 lb range I might give it a try.

Actually, in my case the 400+ lbs is a fully loaded trailer. That includes a full size deep cycle battery to power my CPAP at night. That I try to keep situated right over the axle so as to not impact the tongue weight, either less or more. As far as towing, it tows wonderfully. The only time I can tell it's there is during braking, which should be expected. After all, it adds 40% to the load the brakes see.

 

[oldrcluvr]

2018 F3-S SM6 Power

Friend I was in the same situation, switch or stick with my Shelby Cobra for thrills...... My feeling on the regular Trikes is ..... they are " death machines " , in comparison to the handling of any Spyder .....jmho.... Mike :thumbup:

My 2018 F3-S has no lack of power or torque ! Being ido not drive one way distances of over a hundred miles I chose a Plain F3-s. Almost bought a F3-T but so glad I didn’t because of the way I have to climb on it . Takes a lot of getting used to vs two wheelers but I’m loving it especially the reverse. If not for my Spyder I would never ride again. But I’m loving it and getting better every time I ride it. Love the clutch reminds me of a motorcycle and gives me the control. But once again I’ve had some fast bikes and the F3-s is full
Of thrills.

 

[bikerbillone]

Basil, moving from two wheels to 3 is an experience trying to make an informed decision. I went with the 2005 GW Road Smith conversion, not on the cheap for sure. It's been a fine machine, no question, did a demo on the RTL, smooth, good suspension, fast enough for me with two up. I would pick the RTL over the GW trike for comfort, but there were other considerations in my circumstances, so I'm still with the GW Trike. I suppose one problem right out of the box, dealer's want me to almost 'give away' my GW for a trade in, I'm not willing to do that. If you're thinking of a GW for your trike, be prepared for sticker shock, for finance concerns, I'd go with the Spyder, but as I read, unless you're willing to do some of the maintenance, shop work is gonna be a sticker shock. I find this thread an interesting read because there are several happy Spyder riders that moved from a GW to a Spyder, but then, the GWs were probably two wheelers and a difficult comparison. Two up and luggage space was also a consideration in my decision to putt on with the GW, there's just no way can get as much 'stuff' on the Spyder as I can load on the GW, and that's a real thing for a week or two away from my perspective.

 

[Zip]

Thinking of buying a 2017 f3 limited or order an F3T and add the tour pack on the rear. My dealer let me test drive an RT limited for the weekend, he doesn't currently have an F3 demo to ride. I hate the SE6 transmission. Plus this thing feels WAY under powered, is the SM6 model more powerful feeling? They say this thing has 100hp or so to the wheel, sure doesn't feel like it. Is the F3 geared different than the RT? I don't understand how people describe this thing as being torquey, is it me? The demo is a 2016 RT limited, had 58 miles on it when i took it. It has around 275 now. I can get used to the atv like handling, the lack of power would be a deal breaker unless the manual trans model is waaaay better.

Can Am Rotax 1330, 115 hp, Torque 96 lb-ft., 0 mph to 60 5.03 seconds. Top speed of 121 mph. weight 1000lbs

1,833 six-cylinder, 97.85 hp,Torque,123.2 ft. lbs, 0 mph to 60 6.3 seconds. weight 904-933 lbs

 

[Yeochips]

I'm kind of disappointed actually. I knew coming from a wing there would be some things i would have to give up. I can get over the handling aspect without a problem, I can get over not having built in comms, CD changer, and the crappy stereo sytem compared to the wing. Wife is not nearly as comfortable on the RT as she is on the wing and the lack of power kills it. Up to 60 or so is ok, after that it just feels like you are forcing it albeit unwillingly. We do a fair amount of traveling and "ride in" so we need to have enough reserve power especially on the freeway to get out of a jamb. I imagine you could hang in the right lane and do the speed limit all day but where's the fun in that. We travel through the Baltimore area and DC on our way out of town most times and all the cage drivers will run you over if you aren't doing at least 85.

We rode the wing to the dragon and back a couple weeks ago, 1800 miles in 4 days. On the way home I set the cruise for 85, never downshifted and didn't stop til I needed gas. 700 mile trip home, effortless keeping that pace and got 41mpg. I guess I am spoiled. I'm going to ride 2 wheels as long as i can I guess and who knows after that. it just seems crazy to me that they would build this thing and under power it for freeway cruising. I want to 'll like it, really I do.

To all that say it is because it is 1800cc versus 1330cc, I used to have a Voyager xii, 1200cc that weighed close to what the wing does and that Thing made gobs of power too. In fact every motorcycle ive ever ridden had more than enough power on the freeway to get out of a jamb if needed, regardless of engine size. The manufacturer put enough power onboard for the size of the bike.

Sounds like you have made up your mind.:thumbup:

 

[Wahrsuul]

Beings as it's almost a 3 year old thread, I'm sure he has For myself - the wife really wanted a 'wing trike. We've borrowed my brother's 05 1800 and she loves the seat. But for me... I can't say why, but if we had one, I wouldn't ride it much for me, but only when she wanted to go. I don't see me riding it for my own amusement. And they're way more expensive than a Spyder, at least around here. Used 02 1800 trikes are still pushing 15k+ with newer ones going into the 25k range. I've seen a couple of the '18 trikes going for over 40K.

But then the Spyder's seems to hold their value more here too.

 

[Eckhard]

Can Am Rotax 1330, 115 hp, Torque 96 lb-ft., 0 mph to 60 5.03 seconds. Top speed of 121 mph. weight 1000lbs

1,833 six-cylinder, 97.85 hp,Torque,123.2 ft. lbs, 0 mph to 60 6.3 seconds. weight 1251 lbs

Weight of the GW is not correct or includes 450 lbs of cargo. The Can Am weight given is an empty weight.

 

[den1953]

You have to consider that a 1330cc motor is not going to have as much torque as an 1800cc motor. Horsepower probably is less as well. The other thing is power to weight ratio and that is probably the key to the difference you are experiencing. That and three wheels will have more polling resistance and friction. All things considered Cam Am has done a lot with a mid size motor.