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Spyder Review in Toronto Star

2faston3

New member
Along came a three-wheeled Spyder​
:spyder:

It's not a motorcycle. It's not an ATV. It's certainly not a snowmobile. But the can-Am Spyder is a combination of all three and it's road legal.

Can-Am Spyder
PRICE: $18,499 Cdn.; $15,000 U.S.
ENGINE: Liquid-cooled 990 cc Rotax V-twin
POWER/TORQUE: 106 hp/77 lb.-ft.
FUEL CONSUMPTION: 5 L/100 km combined
COMPETITION: New hot tub
WHAT’S BEST: Rock-solid stability
WHAT’S WORST: Why the higher Canadian price?
WHAT’S INTERESTING: No other ride like it


Can-Am's wild new vehicle is unlike anything else that's licensed for the road

MARK RICHARDSON WHEELS EDITOR

Feb 16, 2008

MELBOURNE, FLA.–

The checklist is daunting on the waiver form for the Can-Am Spyder. This vehicle is NOT a motorcycle. [Check]
This vehicle is wider than a motorcycle. [Check]
The right foot pedal brakes all three wheels. [Check]

The list goes on. Clearly the lawyers are nervous about motorcycle riders jumping on the thing and piling themselves off the road at the first corner.
Steer directly in the direction of the turn. Do NOT counter steer. [Check]
And this, of course, is just the waiver form for occasional riders like myself. The machine has its own laminated safety document that slides out from above the dials. Turn on the ignition key and a message comes up on the dials telling you to acknowledge reading the safety form by pressing a button; if you don't, the Spyder won't start.
This form, permanently attached, is much more extensive: "The Spyder roadster is a different type of vehicle," it states right up front. "It requires special skills and knowledge ..."
On the plus side, this means there are none of those disfiguring stickers on the machine, the ones that describe the objects in the rear-view mirror and that tell you to always wear a helmet or seat belt.
On the minus side, why are those lawyers so nervous?
The Can-Am Spyder truly is a vehicle like no other. Two wheels at the front and one fat wheel at the back turn the traditional rules of machine design completely on their head. It's not a motorcycle, though it's classified as one in Canada and most of the United States, where you need a two-wheeled licence to ride it; it's not an ATV, though its frame uses know-how from the ATV chassis that its maker, Quebec-based Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) builds by the thousands; it's not a car, though in Europe, California, South Carolina and Delaware you need only a car licence to operate it.
And it's most definitely not a trike, which comes with two wheels at the back and one up front and has a reputation as an old rider's vehicle, built for somebody a little more doddery than he or she used to be.
So what is the Spyder?
"We call it a roadster that you sit on, rather than sit in," says Marc Lacroix, the amiable BRP spokesperson who is getting ready to go for a ride with me here on Central Florida's warm, mercifully-straight roads.
"It's an open-air experience that gives the sensation of motorcycling and the open road with much greater stability than a motorcycle can ever provide. It's not supposed to replace motorcycles or sports cars – it's something else entirely that provides a whole new experience."
I'm afraid I'm skeptical. With either one wheel more or one wheel less than conventional vehicles, surely the Spyder loses out on both counts? There'll be none of the pleasure of leaning a motorcycle into a curve, and none of the safety and convenience of a car, with its airbags, roof, casual clothes and conversation.
"Let's go for a ride and you can find out for yourself," says Lacroix.
But hold on a minute. With all those warnings, I want to know a bit more about what I'm getting into first.
The Spyder was first conceived 12 years ago, when BRP's vice-president of design challenged his team to come up with a product that could be licensed for public roads. It couldn't be either a car or a motorcycle because those markets are just too competitive (and expensive) for entry by a new manufacturer.
That pretty much left the three-wheeled option. The problem with having its two parallel wheels at the front and not at the more traditional back is that the effort needed for steering is considerably greater, but the designers knew that this "Y" configuration was what they wanted. Not only is it claimed to be more stable on the road, but it's easier for the rider to operate because both wide wheels are in view – a continuous guide for the width of the vehicle. As well, the sight of those struts and trailing arms provides a very sporting experience, intended to mimic the open wheels of a Formula One race car.
The Spyder is considerably quicker than most any production sports car. A liquid-cooled 990 cc Rotax V-Twin provides a top speed of about 170 km/h, but gets the machine up to 100 km/h in a claimed 4.5 seconds.
There are five gears and a fully-mechanical reverse gear, operated like a motorcycle with a left foot pedal and a left-handlebar-mounted clutch lever; an "automatic" version of the Spyder, with a thumb-operated left-hand gear selector button and no clutch, is due to be released this summer.
The machine that Lacroix is walking me out to is, after all, in just the first year of its production. After a decade of development, Spyders finally came onto the market last September at a price in the States of $15,000 (U.S.). The Canadian price for this Quebec-built product is $18,500. "We're working to address that," says Lacroix.
About a thousand Spyders have been sold so far; the first person to get one was Tonight Show host Jay Leno.
Well, if it's good enough for Leno, it's good enough for me. I swung a leg over the wide seat, strapped on my helmet, turned the key, pressed the safety acknowledgement button without reading the card and followed Lacroix out onto the highway.
Actually, I first almost crashed the thing into a wall. Backing up gently for a clear shot up the driveway, I reached for the front brake lever up on the right handlebar – where every motorcycle front brake lever resides — and found nothing, as the Spyder carried on backwards. With a helmet, handlebars, twist throttle and legs straddling a saddle, it's difficult not to think of the machine as a motorcycle.
Just in time, I remembered the foot brake that I'd checked off on earlier, which stops all three wheels. The Spyder stopped. Lacroix looked relieved. So did Cody Hawkins, a BRP test rider who knows the Florida roads and would take us on a 150 km ride. The Star photographer looked disappointed.
The braking system on the Spyder is very sophisticated, providing linked anti-lock braking (ABS) to all three wheels so that it's not possible to tip the 316 kg machine up on its front axle under heavy braking – a "stoppie" in motorcycle lingo.
This is all part of the Spyder's Vehicle Stability System, which includes a separate stability control system to monitor the vehicle's direction in relation to the turn of the handlebars, and a traction control system to monitor slippage of the wheels. Basically, the VSS is checking to make sure the Spyder never tips over, even far beyond its maximum turning force of 0.7 G.
The Spyder is extremely comfortable. It's intended as a sport-touring machine: powerful yet comfortable, lithe yet rock-solid on the asphalt. There's a 44-litre trunk for luggage in the front that is deep and lockable from the ignition, rated for 16 kg of stuff.
This did not make it relaxing at the start of our ride. I found myself constantly readjusting the steering. I mentioned this to Lacroix at our first stop. "Try pushing instead of pulling," he suggested. "And relax."
So I relaxed my grip and the machine also seemed to relax. The heavy steering is countered with a power steering ECU that varies the input required from the rider depending on the speed and angle of the turn, so that it's not heavy at all. Now this felt pretty good! We stopped at the lights and people looked over at the strange machines as we sat there, feet up on the pegs, nonchalant.
Pulling away, the Spyder was smooth and responsive. There was some sand in the intersection but it was as inconsequential to the double-tracked vehicle as if we were driving cars. It would be the same on wet or even icy pavement. But here in Florida, the temperature was pushing 30 C and the roads were dry. Perfect for a little fun in the corners, and a hard-left-hander was coming right up. I followed Hawkins through as he found the perfect apex, except my Spyder went far wide of the line and I felt as if I was going to be thrown from the right-side of the vehicle.
Well that was different. Another turn was coming up and I held more tightly onto the grips, but also watched Hawkins more closely as I followed his line. He was moving his seat on the saddle, tipping his knee forward in preparation for the corner. I did so too, and then the memory came of doing the same thing last winter on the snowy snowmobile trails of Haliburton. Of course! Ride it like a snowmobile!
It's a strange feeling to ride a snowmobile on a Florida highway, but that's the closest comparison I could make. And it was a pretty good feeling, too.
"This is active riding, while a car is passive driving," explained Lacroix later. "Lean in with your knees and legs and it will affect the handling even more."
We carried on like this until after dark. The "active riding" means that the Spyder is really not well suited for passengers, since going around corners means the passenger should hold on really tight to the beefy grab bars at the back (or persuade the owner to install the optional backrest with lateral supports). BRP calls the machine a 1+1 vehicle.
So are they cool? Is the Can-Am Spyder the Next Big Thing?
BRP certainly hopes so. It's intended as an alternative recreational vehicle for the road, and in that it succeeds admirably. It's not for everybody, but then motorcycles and convertibles aren't for everybody either. Neither are snowmobiles. Maybe this is why the lawyers are so concerned that people will confuse their purposes and not understand their differences.
But there are plenty of people who love non-mainstream travel, and there are bound to be many who'll love this vehicle, too. And according to BRP, it's only just begun. More variations on the theme are slated for down the road as the Spyder establishes itself.
"This is a long-term thing," says Lacroix. "Can we build a lot of them? Absolutely. We can build just as many as the market will bear."

Mark Richardson is the editor of Wheels. [email protected]

TORONTO STAR
 
I love this part. ;D
http://www.wheels.ca/autoshow/article/177156

Actually, I first almost crashed the thing into a wall. Backing up gently for a clear shot up the driveway, I reached for the front brake lever up on the right handlebar – where every motorcycle front brake lever resides — and found nothing, as the Spyder carried on backwards. With a helmet, handlebars, twist throttle and legs straddling a saddle, it's difficult not to think of the machine as a motorcycle.

HEY BRP IT'S NOT JUST ME ;D
 
I saw this video on youtube a while back where this guy put on a helmet cam and with the camera rolling he fired up the spyder put it in reverse....... He rolls back and you see him squeeze the right handle bar and hear him say "oh crap, no front brake!" as he looks around to see if anyone saw him do it. LOL
 
The following letter appeared yesterday (February 23, 2008) in the Toronto Star:

Re Along came a three-wheeled Spyder
Mark Richardson, Feb. 16
Here we have a vehicle (let's call it that) made in Canada, by Canadians with Canadian resources. We also
have Canadian money at par with the U.S. dollar.
Why then does this vehicle cost 23.3 per cent more in Canada than the U.S. price?
Oh yes - this was addressed in the article when the BRP spokesperson commented that "We're working to
address that."
Well that makes me feel a whole lot better. And I still believe in the Tooth Fairy.
So often, I hear people ask me why I do so much shopping in the U.S. Well - duh!
I also just love the final sentence of the article: "We can build just as many as the market will bear." I hope
that the message gets sent by Canadians through U.S. purchases of this vehicle.
As Canadians, we are tired of having to submit to higher prices with no reasonable viable explanation and
as such, the Canadian market will bear nil.
Brian Dalton, London
(Ed. Note: BRP prohibits its U.S. dealers from selling to Canadian residents for import to Canada.)

I truly hope that BRP will address this situation sooner rather than later. I had a good friend pretty well sold on the merits of the Spyder, until he found out about the price difference. This turned him off the Spyder completely. Unfortunately, I think BRP will lose a lot of sales in Canada until they revise their price structure, and this is a shame, because the Spyder is a fine product.

Cheers,

Bruce
 
Yeah, I'm not getting that price difference either. You'd think importing taxes, duties, etc, and shipping and all that would have made hit MORE expensive in the US.
 
matusky said:
Yeah, I'm not getting that price difference either. You'd think importing taxes, duties, etc, and shipping and all that would have made hit MORE expensive in the US.

I am not sure if this is at least some of the cause for the disparity but Canada taxes everything at every step along the way. Many taxes are simply incorporated into the base cost of the item. Got to pay for all that "Free" health care you know.

Also, Canada signed onto the Kyoto protocol (which the US did not). I believe this protocol has provision to tax the snot out of anything that produces "Green House Gasses".

So it may not be more money into BRP's pocket at all.

It's like gasoline in the US. If you took all the profit made by the oil companies out of the price you'd drop the cost of 1 gallon of gas by about 4 cents. If you cut the governments take you'd cut the cost of fuel about 30 cents a gallon. The politicians are always screaming about gouging from "Big Oil" but they never metion their take. And government doesn't explore, drill, pump, transport, refine or deliver 1 drop of it.

It's always amazed me that so many people think more government is the answer.
 
BajaRon said:
I am not sure if this is at least some of the cause for the disparity but Canada taxes everything at every step along the way. Many taxes are simply incorporated into the base cost of the item. Got to pay for all that "Free" health care you know.

Also, Canada signed onto the Kyoto protocol (which the US did not). I believe this protocol has provision to tax the snot out of anything that produces "Green House Gasses".

So it may not be more money into BRP's pocket at all.

It's like gasoline in the US. If you took all the profit made by the oil companies out of the price you'd drop the cost of 1 gallon of gas by about 4 cents. If you cut the governments take you'd cut the cost of fuel about 30 cents a gallon. The politicians are always screaming about gouging from "Big Oil" but they never metion their take. And government doesn't explore, drill, pump, transport, refine or deliver 1 drop of it.

It's always amazed me that so many people think more government is the answer.

:agree:

You won't get any argument from me about the oppressive level of taxation in Canada, but all those costs tend to get rolled into a manufacturer's retail sales price, no matter where the product is destined.

And I'm with you on the Kyoto thing too. I thought at the time, and continue to believe, that it was a collosal mistake to sign onto that ridiculous :edit: agreement.

Bruce
 
Director said:
:agree:

You won't get any argument from me about the oppressive level of taxation in Canada, but all those costs tend to get rolled into a manufacturer's retail sales price, no matter where the product is destined.

And I'm with you on the Kyoto thing too. I thought at the time, and continue to believe, that it was a colossal mistake to sign onto that ridiculous :edit: agreement.

Bruce

It was a mistake to sign the Kyoto agreement. It's less about planet care and more about hamstringing the industrial countries.

I guess you are right that at least some of the taxation is built into the base price no matter where the final destination. But BRP is in the business of selling product. You wouldn't think they would have such a difference.

I sell a lot of Arai helmets all over the world. I can tell you the price in the US is much less (about 30%) than for the same exact helmet in Europe or UK. Some of this is attributable to excessive import duties and taxes but not all. I think the difference there is that the UK and Europe customer will pay more for the product than they will in the US.
 
Director said:
:agree:

You won't get any argument from me about the oppressive level of taxation in Canada, but all those costs tend to get rolled into a manufacturer's retail sales price, no matter where the product is destined.

And I'm with you on the Kyoto thing too. I thought at the time, and continue to believe, that it was a collosal mistake to sign onto that ridiculous :edit: agreement.

Bruce


arent your taxes high because you have free medical?
 
Director said:
He knows. Check his first post. He was talking about Canada when he said it was a mistake to sign it. ;D

Thanks Director. Sometimes threads can get chopped up and statements aren't clear.

Thank the Lord that the US did not sign the agreement. There are many things that the US has not signed. Like the World Tax that the UN wants to levy, (read, sock it to the industrialized nations). We really need more "Oil for Food" programs like the UN administered with a lot of US money.

Don't get me started.

I feel sorry for Canadians in some ways with their tax and medical situation. But the bottom line is they voted for it. They bought the flimflam and now they are paying for it. If we get it here in the US it won't be the governments fault. It will be the voters that ask for it.
 
BajaRon said:
I feel sorry for Canadians in some ways with their tax and medical situation. But the bottom line is they voted for it. They bought the flimflam and now they are paying for it. If we get it here in the US it won't be the governments fault. It will be the voters that ask for it.
I know, I know. Believe me, the guys I vote for rarely seem to win an election, and I am almost always on the "other" side of these issues! :'(
 
Director said:
I know, I know. Believe me, the guys I vote for rarely seem to win an election, and I am almost always on the "other" side of these issues! :'(

:agree: ........ I voted against Bush TWICE! and thank GOD they limit our presidents to two terms!

Go Hillary! ;D
 
matusky said:
:agree: ........ I voted against Bush TWICE! and thank GOD they limit our presidents to two terms!

Go Hillary! ;D

You could just move to Canada. They already have the "Free" health care, high taxes and over regulation that Hillary wants to give you. Then you would still have the US to come back to when it doesn't work.

But if the US goes the same way as Canada, then where will we go when it doesn't work?
 
BajaRon said:
You could just move to Canada. They already have the "Free" health care, high taxes and over regulation that Hillary wants to give you. Then you would still have the US to come back to when it doesn't work.

But if the US goes the same way as Canada, then where will we go when it doesn't work?
Yep, while this whole string has drifted completely off topic for a Spyder forum, I can tell you that Michael Moore seems to be the only guy in the world who believes the Canadian health system is working well. Our doctors are deserting the ship in droves, heading for the USA where they know they can actually get paid what the market will bear. People are finding it very difficult to even find a family doctor!
Regards,
Bruce
 
Director said:
Yep, while this whole string has drifted completely off topic for a Spyder forum, I can tell you that Michael Moore seems to be the only guy in the world who believes the Canadian health system is working well. Our doctors are deserting the ship in droves, heading for the USA where they know they can actually get paid what the market will bear. People are finding it very difficult to even find a family doctor!
Regards,
Bruce

You're right, we have drifted off topic and run the risk of getting in trouble with The Big Guy! But Spyder Lovers need health care too.
 
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