What's the correct oil capacity for a 1330 motor?

[merlot]

I recently did an oil change on my 2016 F3 Ltd

I checked the handbook and the workshop manual, and it spec'd 4.7 litres with filter, so that's what it got. I don't try to check with the dipstick as I find dry sump engines a little fluky to check.

Anyway, a punter comes over for an oil change not long after, with a 2019 F3, so I checked his book for the capacity, just to be anal, and it calls for 5.2 litres!

So I went back to my bike and checked the dip stick (something I never do, I just change the oil every 5000kms or 3000 miles) and I find there's no oil showing on the dipstick!

Why are there 2 different recommendations? One 4.7 and one 5.2 litres? Or am I reading things wrongly?

Russ

 

[troop]

Ha .. They're different each year in a 2018/2019/2020 F3 owners manual. Why ? Who knows. Start at 5.25 qts/ride/check/add if necessary.

 

[Copperman]

Maybe one is if you change the oil filter and one is if you don't?

 

[JayBros]

BRP has spent a good bit of time and effort to explain the oil level checking procedure for the 1330 ACE engine so operator's can get a reliable dipstick reading on a fully warmed up engine. If you follow the procedure for checking the oil level beginning on pg 115 of your operator's guide you will routinely get a correct reading on the dipstick. If you delay any more than two minutes in checking the dipstick after turning off a fully warmed up engine gravity has begun to allow oil to drain from the dry sump tank back into the crankcase and there is not a reliable way to verify how much oil has drained out of the tank over time.

 

[jcthorne]

I can tell you the 1330 engine is mostly unchanged for 2015 thru 2019, to the point they are directly interchangeable, electronics, harness, ECM etc. IE a 2019 engine is a direct fit in a 2015 bike and vice versa.

 

[Highwayman2013]

Mine takes a little over 5 Quarts or 4.7 liters. So put in 4.7 and ride it then check it when you get it warm.

 

[carbonation]

5 quarts got mine to the halfway dot on the stick.
I'm staying with it.

 

[PinkRosePetal]

My user handbook and service manual for the same bike have that discrepancy too. I put in 5 litres and it's always been fine.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Russ, I trust you are familiar with the term "screw up" and its more seemly variations? It would be interesting to know if the BRP document writers sometimes just do a poor job of quality control over the writing process, or just the translation process from French to English. Being in Quebec, BRP by law is a 'French First' company.

 

[BajaRon]

Interestingly, because I sell a lot of oil. Some of my 1330 customers tell me that 5 quarts gets them right near the full mark. And others tell me that 5 quarts barely wets the dip stick (though this is much less common). All change the engine oil filter with every service. And changing the trans filter on the SE6 does not require more than about 0.2 quarts more, according to the book. Or at least the book that I took my numbers from.

There is no way that I can see that the oil capicity could vary on the 1330 Rotax engine (other than the small difference between the SM6 and the SE6). So it has been a bit of a mystery to me.

 

[larryd]

Interestingly, because I sell a lot of oil. Some of my 1330 customers tell me that 5 quarts gets them right near the full mark. And others tell me that 5 quarts barely wets the dip stick (though this is much less common). All change the engine oil filter with every service. And changing the trans filter on the SE6 does not require more than about 0.2 quarts more, according to the book. Or at least the book that I took my numbers from.

There is no way that I can see that the oil capicity could vary on the 1330 Rotax engine (other than the small difference between the SM6 and the SE6). So it has been a bit of a mystery to me.

View attachment 179870

THANK YOU Ron, I have my Spyder on the lift right now changing the oil, filter & hcm filter and have been looking for how much additional oil is required when changing the hcm filter...larryd

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Interestingly, because I sell a lot of oil. Some of my 1330 customers tell me that 5 quarts gets them right near the full mark. And others tell me that 5 quarts barely wets the dip stick (though this is much less common). All change the engine oil filter with every service. And changing the trans filter on the SE6 does not require more than about 0.2 quarts more, according to the book. Or at least the book that I took my numbers from.

There is no way that I can see that the oil capicity could vary on the 1330 Rotax engine (other than the small difference between the SM6 and the SE6). So it has been a bit of a mystery to me.

I wonder if the difference relates to whether the engine was run, and for how long, before the oil was drained and after 5 qts was put in. I have six empty bottles out in the garage from changing the oil and filter last week. Five were full and one about 1/3 full. I took the Spyder out for a several mile run after putting in 5 qts. When I came back and checked the level it was low. I added the remaining part bottle and that brought the oil level between the two marks. The oil was hot when I drained it.

 

[EdMat]

Just my experience and I went the extra because I had heard so many conflicting things about oil capacity.
When I changed oil in my 2019 RTL I checked it before HOT draining and it was full. Drained and measured the amount of oil removed. 5 and 1/2 quarts. Changed engine oil filter. Put in new oil, 5 and 1/2 quarts. Rode it for 30 minutes and rechecked oil level, full.

Here is the table out of the 2019 RT manual. As you can see it is different than the one Ron posted above.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just my experience and I went the extra because I had heard so many conflicting things about oil capacity.
When I changed oil in my 2019 RTL I checked it before HOT draining and it was full. Drained and measured the amount of oil removed. 5 and 1/2 quarts. Changed engine oil filter. Put in new oil, 5 and 1/2 quarts. Rode it for 30 minutes and rechecked oil level, full.

Here is the table out of the 2019 RT manual. As you can see it is different than the one Ron posted above.

View attachment 179876

Looks like BRP engineers have finally figured out what the reality is with respect to how oil moves around in the engine. The 5.5 number is much closer to what my experience has been. My RT is a 2014. It's also important, maybe critical (?), to check the oil within a just a very few minutes after shutting off the engine. Whatever the pool is that the dipstick is in, it starts draining immediately after the engine is turned off. I noted a year ago that my dipstick was completely dry before I started my RT for the first time after it had sat all winter. After maybe a 10 mile run the oil was at the full mark.

 

[BajaRon]

It would be good to get a definitive, correct oil capacity. You would think BRP might be a bit more diligent in this area. My numbers come straight from the manual. I am more inclined to believe that the numbers from my source are simply wrong as opposed to any changes made to the 1330 ACE motor. I am not an engineer. But if my specs. were off by this much on my Sway Bar Kits. Well, it would not be pretty.

Admittedly, a sway bar is not an oil capacity. But with the engineers that BRP has, it just does not seem reasonable that they would get this wrong. Have I been giving out bad information all these years? Is 5 quarts good for some and not for others? These are pretty important questions to get right. I do not appreciate bad advise. No matter how sincere the source. And I do not want to be guilty of giving it out either.

I appreciate the posts here. It may well be that I need to change my numbers.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

It would be good to get a definitive, correct oil capacity. You would think BRP might be a bit more diligent in this area. My numbers come straight from the manual. I am more inclined to believe that the numbers from my source are simply wrong as opposed to any changes made to the 1330 ACE motor. I am not an engineer. But if my specs. were off by this much on my Sway Bar Kits. Well, it would not be pretty.

Admittedly, a sway bar is not an oil capacity. But with the engineers that BRP has, it just does not seem reasonable that they would get this wrong.

One of two things, I believe. One, BRP engineers have changed their minds about what level of oil is best, or, the engineers involved with the 2019 product were not aware of what was determined back in 2014/2015. Review this thread from back in 2015. https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...apter-II&highlight=bulletin+1330+oil+capacity. It's quite clear that the guidance was that bringing the oil level only up to the bottom nubbin on the dipstick was quite OK. But if the oil level dropped below that point then adding 1/2 liter or 1/2 quart was recommended as that would bring the level in between the low and high nubbins. Apparently they wanted to absolutely avoid having people put too much oil in because of the engine performance issues that could cause. When I put 5 1/3 qts into my 1330 it brought the level up to the halfway, or just over, point.

According to Steve of BRP Cares back then, BRP wanted users to run a bit low rather than take a chance on running high. So yes, we really need to have a good clear definitive answer from BRP, but first they have to get it firmly decided and agreed to inside their own shop. I wonder if an inquiry directly to Rotax would do any good. Maybe it's time to do an end run around BRP?

As far as BRP engineers getting it wrong I would say they haven't. But they certainly have published conflicting advice, and that is quite understandable. Engineers are always prone to "improve it" (I'm one!) so it's quite plausible in my mind that later engineers didn't agree with, or didn't understand, the rationale about letting oil level be at the low point that the earlier engineers had determined and so came up with a different recommendation. This confusion wouldn't have happened if BRP would have changed the dipstick and put the nubbins lower back in 2015.

My take away from all this is put 5 qts in, run until the engine is hot, and then check the level. Add oil to whatever level makes you feel good, but for sure stay below the full nubbin. And don't be concerned about running a little bit under the low nubbin.

 

[Gwolf]

First thing to do would be to find out if all the dipsticks are the same length. They would not be likely to change the engine design to hold more or less oil, but they just might change the dipstick which is used to measure the oil level, if they have determined the earlier engines had too high an oil level.

 

[JayBros]

First thing to do would be to find out if all the dipsticks are the same length...

Go to Cheap Cycle Parts and check the part numbers from MYs 2014 - 2017 for F3.s and RTs.

 

[Gwolf]

Go to Cheap Cycle Parts and check the part numbers from MYs 2014 - 2017 for F3.s and RTs.

Yeah, different part numbers on the different model dipsticks, but also different part numbers on the oil filler tubes for the different models.

Doesn't really tell anything about actual oil level in the engine. Won't be able to tell anything from the part numbers or measuring. They put a different filler tube with the different dipstick.

 

[2dogs]

This thread is getting to be like the coronavirus threads.............

I understand that the length of the dip stick can be compromised. The one on my wife's jeep cherokee is 1qt off. My 2014 1330 always reads the same. Hot, cold or warm, before I start it or after I've shut it down for 2min, 10min or 2 days or 10 days. When I change the oil and filter I put 5qt's of oil in it and I don't look back for another 9k miles. The oil level on the dip stick has never changed in over 40k miles. The level on the dip stick is always between the dots, always. The only time i'd be freaked out is if i found fresh oil on the ground below where I parked my ride, and I do check that often, both before I park and after leave the parking spot.