The 'Full Synthetic' Myth Exposed

[BajaRon]

This is actually an old story that continues to morph into marketing misdirection. This video attempts to put things in perspective.

 

[pegasus1300]

Well that was interesting and very informative. Thanks Ron for posting that link. I may be rethinking my oil buying habits in the near future.

 

[safecracker]

Very informative.

 

[Jackhartjr]

Is there a synopsis for folks that don't want to spend 20 minutes watching this please?

 

[hogmemberisold]

It was worth the 20 minutes.....

Thanks for posting the video!!!

 

[Yabbadabbadoo]

I didn't know this, but I'm glad to have been using Mobil 1 in my Spyder and my GMC Yukon all these years.

 

[CrazyCooter]

As with most things, it would be nice to really know what you are buying because it's marked on the bottle? Why does everything have to be about misrepresentation/deception for profit? Just tell us type lll, lV, or V so we can make a educated decision? Generally you can tell by the price, but not always.

To further complicate things, our friendly Iranian buddies bombed the Shell refinery in Qatar in effort to knock out natural gas supplies. This refinery is the only location in the world that produces GTL base stock.

If you like Pennzoil Platinum or any other oil that comes from natural gas.....might wanna go buy it while it's on the shelf ?

 

[BajaRon]

Is there a synopsis for folks that don't want to spend 20 minutes watching this please?

A very good question. I knew this video would not be for everyone. It's got some strange glitches which I think may be due to AI help. And if you do not already have some background with the subject, it can be difficult to keep up with the video, which assumes more knowledge than the average person can be expected to have.

It's also somewhat vague when it could have been more clear. But let me see if I can give some bullet points that get us to the crux of the matter.

1. Everyone starts with a base oil and combines it with an additive package.
2. The base oil and the additive package make a big difference, both in performance and price.
3. The 2 major players in this discussion are Group III (Highly Refined Mineral Oil), and Group IV (PAO - A Chemically Engineered Oil)
4. Group III needs a very good additive package to hold up well in modern engines. Especially if the engine oil also lubricates the transmission.
5. Group IV uses a process that builds, or engineers, the desired molicules to exacting specifications. As such, it usually needs little to no additive package. Because the process builds in the desired charastics.
6. Group IV is known for being of extreme purity with a high VI, Viscosity Index (Able to resist shearing and viscosity drop). It also possesses superior thermal stability (Able to resist heat degredation), and cold start, low-temperature flow.

Mobil1, along with Amsoil and a few others, were making true synthetic oil when Castrol began to label their mineral base oil as 'Full Synthetic'. Mobil1 sued them for false advertising, which it was. But they lost. This allowed Castrol, and others, to market their inferior (Note that I said 'Inferior', not inadequate), product which could now compete with the superior true synthetic lubricants at a lower price point.

True synthetically engineered molicule lubricants have a number of advantages over any Group III product. This video tries to make a few very pertinent points.

1. The customer deserves to know what they are getting.
2. Many times, the customer is paying more for a product that does less due to the false marketing allowed by the court decision.
3. Marketing should inform, not deceive.

Why the US court sided with Castrol (we are the only nation in the world that allows a mineral based oil to be classified and marketed as 'Synthetic'). Many experts in the industry consider this a miscarage of justice. The marketing people consider it a windfall for profits.

This is not to say that Group III oils are bad. The video rightly is careful to say that most are 'Adequate' if you change oil at 5,000 miles. Which is exactly where the XPS oil begins to shear and lose viscosity pretty drastically. But the service interval for our Spyders is 9,300 miles. And I think this is a significant combination of detail.

 

[Leaping1]

This is actually an old story that continues to morph into marketing misdirection. This video attempts to put things in perspective.

Thanks for sharing. It makes me feel good because I only use Mobil One or Amsoil.

 

[Jackhartjr]

A very good question. I knew this video would not be for everyone. It's got some strange glitches which I think may be due to AI help. And if you do not already have some background with the subject, it can be difficult to keep up with the video, which assumes more knowledge than the average person can be expected to have.

It's also somewhat vague when it could have been more clear. But let me see if I can give some bullet points that get us to the crux of the matter.

1. Everyone starts with a base oil and combines it with an additive package.
2. The base oil and the additive package make a big difference, both in performance and price.
3. The 2 major players in this discussion are Group III (Highly Refined Mineral Oil), and Group IV (PAO - A Chemically Engineered Oil)
4. Group III needs a very good additive package to hold up well in modern engines. Especially if the engine oil also lubricates the transmission.
5. Group IV uses a process that builds, or engineers, the desired molicules to exacting specifications. As such, it usually needs little to no additive package. Because the process builds in the desired charastics.
6. Group IV is known for being of extreme purity with a high VI, Viscosity Index (Able to resist shearing and viscosity drop). It also possesses superior thermal stability (Able to resist heat degredation), and cold start, low-temperature flow.

Mobil1, along with Amsoil and a few others, were making true synthetic oil when Castrol began to label their mineral base oil as 'Full Synthetic'. Mobil1 sued them for false advertising, which it was. But they lost. This allowed Castrol, and others, to market their inferior (Note that I said 'Inferior', not inadequate), product which could now compete with the superior true synthetic lubricants at a lower price point.

True synthetically engineered molicule lubricants have a number of advantages over any Group III product. This video tries to make a few very pertinent points.

1. The customer deserves to know what they are getting.
2. Many times, the customer is paying more for a product that does less due to the false marketing allowed by the court decision.
3. Marketing should inform, not deceive.

Why the US court sided with Castrol (we are the only nation in the world that allows a mineral based oil to be classified and marketed as 'Synthetic'). Many experts in the industry consider this a miscarage of justice. The marketing people consider it a windfall for profits.

This is not to say that Group III oils are bad. The video rightly is careful to say that most are 'Adequate' if you change oil at 5,000 miles. Which is exactly where the XPS oil begins to shear and lose viscosity pretty drastically. But the service interval for our Spyders is 9,300 miles. And I think this is a significant combination of detail.

Thanks Ron, I really appreciate you!

 

[greer]

Thanks for taking the time, Ron.

Sarah

 

[BajaRon]

I understand that this is a non-issue for many. Unfortunately, life can seem more compicated than it is because there are people dedicated to deception and muddling up the facts. Fortunately, we still have some dedicated to the truth. Still, it can be hard to know what the truth is.

I like the saying, 'Ride More - Worry Less'. But it doesn't hurt to pay attention along the way.

 

[mecsw500]

To be fair both my Can Am dealer and my Jaguar Land Rover dealer advised me both upon all my purchases, or at every servicing interval, to ignore the manufacturers oil change intervals and stick to 5,000 oil changes.

Obviously this means more business for the dealer but in reality I think both have more than enough business such that oil changes aren’t making that much of a difference to their bottom lines.

Now, I live at 5,000 feet and in very dusty conditions and it gets hot in summer, what is probably meant as extreme conditions, but when dealers, with whom I have had a decent relationship with over many years, are going out of their way in making repeated recommendations as to oil change intervals, I tend to believe them.

To be honest though, my children’s cars I kidnap every 5,000 miles or so and take to Jiffy Lube, and have all gone on the achieve very high mileages which make me believe for ordinary cars changing the oil frequently is a major factor, whatever the base stock is. My son’s Nissan Rogue went over 200,000 miles on the original CVT transmission with no problems at all by changing the CVT fluid every 50,000 miles which is a largely unheard of transmission mileage for these vehicles. It still ran like new after all those miles when it was traded.

It’s only recently BRP moved from a semi synthetic XPS oil for Spyders to a fully synthetic XPS oil (whatever that really means). My guess is with frequent oil changes the relatively low revving Spyder engine with its dry sump oiling system and relatively large oil tank meant that an XPS semi synthetic oil was, although not ideal, probably sufficient for a Spyder. I’m sure the high revving Rykers didn’t appreciate it so much, but most of them don’t do the kind of mileages that Spyders do.