Auto Tire on Front of the Spyder

[RAL]

That's your opinion and you really have no idea (sorry)...the Spyer is not a sports car nor does it ride anything like one...it's a three wheel vehicle with very different weight and physics as compared to any car...we should be able to agree on that...Can-Am tested the stock tire to get it to match what the Spyder is capable of doing...I'm not one for the conspiracy theory that they want to hog the market and force us to buy some inferior product. As far as 'silently' changing the tire pattern, why infer that it was 'silent.'...every vehicle and part for a vehicle change with each successive model...it is normal to tweak things to make them better...I don't know why so many here think BRP is out to get one over on everyone!

Come on mr crusher. It is not a conspiracy, I don't think anyone said it was, its a busness. They want to make money. Nothing more nothing less. Offering a safe product is in their best interest. Some options may be better but the profit margin is less so.......its busness:dontknow:
Someone with drive and curiosity, who is willing to poke around a bit to find an alternative is not foolish, far from it.
I am sure You will be served well by the OEM stuff but it may not be the only or the best option all the time.
2 days to Spyder!!!


RAL

 

[BajaRon]

Because the Spyder is so light on the rear it can take a much lighter constructed tire than anything availabel in the auto tire industry.

The Spyder tire is 2 plies tread, 2 plies sidewall. Minimum for all auto tires I've been able to find are 4 plies tread, 2 plies sidewall.

So BRP was able to have a tire designed and made that did not previously exist.

1-It works fine on the Spyder
2-You can only get it from BRP which increases profits whether you intended it to or not.
3-It surely costs less to make than a conventional 4 ply tread tire which affects item #2 above in both initial production and replacement sales.

But does that mean it is the best tire for the job?

How many vehicles, of any kind, are sold with the best possible tire?

Manufacturer's put a tire on the vehicle that will do the job and usually at the lower end of the expense curve. If you want better performance you buy up AFTER you get the vehicle.

The Toyo tire I'm running performs every bit as good as the original, if not better! And it weighed less than the worn out original tire while having more plies and more tread. It also seems to be wearing more uniformly than the original tire because the stiffer tread area (probably due to the extra plies) does not deform as much in the center at high speeds.

Now I am no test engineer nor am I going to bother with scientific criteria. But I am very satisfied that this tire;

1. Works at least as well
2. Definitely costs less
3. Is redily available
4. Can be plugged/patched if needed
5. Has been tested extensively and run millions of miles on passenger as well as race vehicles
6. Will probably get better wear mileage
7. Looks REALLY COOL!

But some of you need to take those stock tires off BRP's hands as I wouldn't want them to get stuck with inventory. And stock oil and stock filter and stock exhaust and stock lighting and stock.....

 

[darren]

tyre

Here is a link on the dunlop im running, its quite impresive the info on it,
LE MANS LM702

The LM702 provides all round performance with superior handling and comfort. Featuring Dunlop's innovative computer tread modelling and fibre reinforced rubber technology, the LM702 is a tyre with superb performance. Now available exclusively at Dunlop Super Dealers.


FeaturesBenefits

• Developed using digital rolling simulation technology
• The LM702 tread pattern reduces noise generation, resists uneven wear and improves water drainage and overall tread life

• Silica based tread compound
• Superior braking, cornering and handling in wet and dry conditions. Also reduces rolling resistance, which can enhance fuel economy.

• Silica tread compound using advanced resins and polymers
• A substantial increase in grip generation in wet braking and cornering

• Jointless Band construction
• Jointless Band Construction (JLB) ensures the tyre retains its optimum shape when cornering for maximum steering response

• Fibre Reinforced Rubber (FRR) construction
• Having a layer of fibre reinforced rubber strengthens the construction in a lateral direction and softens the construction in a vertical direction

 

[truck 85]

have any of you that are using auto tires noticed a difference in your mileage? I was just thinking if the tread is stiffer maybe it will role easyer :dontknow:

 

[Firefly]

Is the way the Spyder takes corners really so unique? To me it resembles a sports car which takes corners flat. Think of the Spyder as a small sports car (roadster?). Most sports cars have VSS, and all cars sold in the U.S. beginning with the year 2012 will have VSS. Auto tires on the front makes the Spyder handle better. It corners with less body roll. I like my Spyder even more now than I did before.

Most corporate decisions are a compromise. They may be optimal for the corporation, but not for the consumer. When I got my first Spyder the rear tire had the same tread pattern as the front tires. By the time I replaced the rear tire, BRP had silently changed the tread pattern on the rear tire. I assume this was in response to reports of hydroplaning. In this case, the engineers were not "all knowing".

One's comfort level is a very important part of the Spyder experience. No one should put auto tires on a Spyder unless they are very comfortable with the idea.

Well -- I think it is unique -- at least in that the Spyder doesn't weigh anything near a sports car --- especially in the front. Sports car has more weight-- thus stiffer sidewalls. I'm betting they went with softer ones and much lower pressure because of the lightness of the Spyder.

I'f someone is having too much 'roll' in the corners - I would crank the shocks up and get the sway bar upgrade.

 

[Firefly]

Here's something more to think about. BRP specifies tires for the Spyder that are only available at Spyder dealers and absolutely no where else. Obviously, the objective here is to maximize profits. BRP wants the profit on the wholesale distribution of all the tires used on the Spyder. It also helps the dealers. Even Harley-Davidson could not get away with something like this. I am sure the automobile manufacturers would love to have a sweet deal like this. This is another example of the maxim: "what is good for the corporation is not necessarily good for the individual".

If my tires fail somewhere on the desert in Nevada, I would rather be looking for auto tires than some obscure Chinese brand sold only at Spyder dealers.

On my recent trip out west, I could not find a Spyder dealer who stocked the o-ring and crush washers for an oil change. I had to settle for an o-ring for a Sea Doo. The dealer said the Sea Doo o-ring cost was four times the cost of the Spyder o-ring, but he would "generously" only charge me $4.49 (Spyder price) for the o-ring. I get o-rings at home for $1.17 (auto supply store).


I understand your frustration.. On a trip I carry o-rings, crush washers, oil filter, etc. Obviously carrying a tire is out of the question for most. Ride-On is a good idea to help keep you on the road.

If Spyder dealers will not stock o-rings and crush washers, do you really think they will stock tires? Spyder owners change engine oil much more frequently than they change tires. I can travel with a spare supply of filters, o-rings, and crush washers, but I cannot carry spare tires, nor should I have to do so.

These factors do not out-weigh safety, but it is possible auto tires may even be safer. They sure feel safer.

I understand your frustration.. On a trip I carry o-rings, crush washers, oil filter, etc. Obviously carrying a tire is out of the question for most. Ride-On is a good idea to help keep you on the road.

The brand BRP sells is hardly 'obscure' and you'll be hard pressed to find a tire not made in China.

Trying to find the right tire for any bike while on a trip could be difficult. Most tire shops don't mess with bike tires - so you're still left with the dealer network. HD and Honda obviously have the most --- but I believe the Spyder has more dealers than brands like BMW.

Actually - since the Spyder *can* use auto tires - it may be more reliable on a trip if you have a flat.

I don't think it's a big conspiracy-- if they were gouging people on the tires then I might think so--- but the OEM tires are very resonable.

 

[Neez]

I understand your frustration.. On a trip I carry o-rings, crush washers, oil filter, etc. Obviously carrying a tire is out of the question for most. Ride-On is a good idea to help keep you on the road.

The brand BRP sells is hardly 'obscure' and you'll be hard pressed to find a tire not made in China.

Trying to find the right tire for any bike while on a trip could be difficult. Most tire shops don't mess with bike tires - so you're still left with the dealer network. HD and Honda obviously have the most --- but I believe the Spyder has more dealers than brands like BMW.

Actually - since the Spyder *can* use auto tires - it may be more reliable on a trip if you have a flat.

I don't think it's a big conspiracy-- if they were gouging people on the tires then I might think so--- but the OEM tires are very resonable.

Slightly off topic, Firefly, but did you manage to take those photos of the misaligned rear spokes you promised for the 14th, on the thread "rear tire valve stem"? I'd be very interested to see them.

 

[WaltH]

Well -- I think it is unique -- at least in that the Spyder doesn't weigh anything near a sports car --- especially in the front. Sports car has more weight-- thus stiffer sidewalls. I'm betting they went with softer ones and much lower pressure because of the lightness of the Spyder.

I'f someone is having too much 'roll' in the corners - I would crank the shocks up and get the sway bar upgrade.

I didn't say the Spyder was the same as a sports car. I said it resembled a sports car. By this I mean it goes around corners flat like a sports car and does not lean like a two wheeled motorcycle.

The shocks on my Spyder were set to maximum pre-load before I accepted delivery. I had the performance sway bar before the end of the second week. I did this with both of my Spyders.

Auto tires on the front of the Spyder improve handling. It just corners better. I was skeptical about this until I experienced for myself. If we meet up at a future Spyder event, you can take my Spyder for a ride and experience it for yourself.

 

[WaltH]

I understand your frustration.. On a trip I carry o-rings, crush washers, oil filter, etc. Obviously carrying a tire is out of the question for most. Ride-On is a good idea to help keep you on the road.

The brand BRP sells is hardly 'obscure' and you'll be hard pressed to find a tire not made in China.

Trying to find the right tire for any bike while on a trip could be difficult. Most tire shops don't mess with bike tires - so you're still left with the dealer network. HD and Honda obviously have the most --- but I believe the Spyder has more dealers than brands like BMW.

Actually - since the Spyder *can* use auto tires - it may be more reliable on a trip if you have a flat.

I don't think it's a big conspiracy-- if they were gouging people on the tires then I might think so--- but the OEM tires are very resonable.

In my first year touring with the Spyder (2008) I carried filters, o-rings, and crush washers because I didn't expect the dealers to have these based on my experience with my home dealer. In my second year (2009) I did not think it would be necessary to do this because we would be passed this stage. I was completely wrong about the dealers having progressed beyond the "we don't stock maintenance items" stage.

Kendra sells tires in motorcycle sizes, but we do not use tires in motorcycle sizes. We use tires in car sizes. In the universe of car sizes Kendra is not only obscure, it is invisible. As far as I know, the only tires Kendra makes in car sizes are sold exclusively at Spyder dealers. I specifically avoid tires made in China like I avoid wheel bearings made in China. I have no trouble finding tires not made in China.

I did not use the word "conspiracy". On the other hand, I know of no vehicle manufacturer other than BRP who restricts the availability of the tires used by its products exclusively to its own dealers. BRP would say this is simply "good business". Nevertheless, it clearly does not serve the best interests of Spyder owners. It is not a matter of price. I do not want anyone telling me where I must buy the tires for my Spyder, just like I don't want to be told where to buy the tires for my Ford F150.

 

[woodz428]

I do not want anyone telling me where I must buy the tires for my Spyder, just like I don't want to be told where to buy the tires for my Ford F150.

Or what type of vehicle I can or cannot ride/drive.
I agree with the cost thing too, I don't recall anyone other than those critical talking $$$. I am and I think those others are talking about IMPROVEMENT. If you believe a mass produced vehicle is at the upper limit of developement, then whatever the factory suggest will be more than adequate. I don't want adequate, I want better and that can only be determined by those willing to experiment.
The manufacturer also says in the owners manual that no trailer should be attached. Not that it needed to be attached to a particular area, but that it should not be..period. Now I see there are a couple of Spyder riders that added trailers to their vehicles long ago. None have expressed fear or panic because they were now riding "unsafe" vehicles. Even BRP is offering their own trailer package now. I know, the RT is expressly designed for it...WHAT does that mean. A complete redesign or just appropriate reinforcing in the neccessary areas. I am sure that most riders that attached one have already done that type work or the hitch people have , but most serious riders don't take their safety lightly, especially if they have decades of 2 wheels behind them.
Anyone running 20s,:joke:
When the Gold Wing was introduced in 1975, it's manufacturer GVW was less than 2 full sized riders. So technicly, if you had anything but a passenger( weight dependent on yours) you would be over the MFG's GVW. I can assure you, the Gold Wing didn't become what it is because people rode without accessories. I do know they warranteed a lot of mag wheels when they went to them, because the weight put on the bikes caused the bearing to open the bearing race within the wheel. No Cost warranty and the main reason was rider overloading. But Honda was trying to develop( which they more than did) a new "Touring" category.They knew that any issue that pointed to it's inability to be used like that was going to have negative long term affects. So what they basicly did was use the riders as a devlopment tool. I think there is sound merit in that.

 

[Firefly]

In my first year touring with the Spyder (2008) I carried filters, o-rings, and crush washers because I didn't expect the dealers to have these based on my experience with my home dealer. In my second year (2009) I did not think it would be necessary to do this because we would be passed this stage. I was completely wrong about the dealers having progressed beyond the "we don't stock maintenance items" stage.

Kendra sells tires in motorcycle sizes, but we do not use tires in motorcycle sizes. We use tires in car sizes. In the universe of car sizes Kendra is not only obscure, it is invisible. As far as I know, the only tires Kendra makes in car sizes are sold exclusively at Spyder dealers. I specifically avoid tires made in China like I avoid wheel bearings made in China. I have no trouble finding tires not made in China.

I did not use the word "conspiracy". On the other hand, I know of no vehicle manufacturer other than BRP who restricts the availability of the tires used by its products exclusively to its own dealers. BRP would say this is simply "good business". Nevertheless, it clearly does not serve the best interests of Spyder owners. It is not a matter of price. I do not want anyone telling me where I must buy the tires for my Spyder, just like I don't want to be told where to buy the tires for my Ford F150.

Yeah-- I agree that it's nuts that the dealers don't stock more parts--- but I can't control that--- so I stock what I think I'll need to keep me on the road.

Kenda tires were exclusively marketed by Cooper tire until early this year -- now Kenda will be marketing themselves. They've made car and truck tires for quite some time. I believe they've been a supplier to BRP for their other product lines for many years.

My local dealer didn't have a rear in stock when I needed one - but ordered one for me. In the meantime I ordered one from robsperformance.com and got it the next day. Took a month for my dealer to get the tire in!

My local tire shop could get all kinds of other Kenda tires - but not the Spyder ones. I've got a spare rear sitting by for when the time comes and will probably pick up spare fronts too.

 

[txknight67]

I'f someone is having too much 'roll' in the corners - I would crank the shocks up and get the sway bar upgrade.

I already know that isn't all of the equation as I just recently totally re-built the front end of my '94 Dakota, replacing everything with Poly-Graphite bushings. I could tell a difference in handling, but the truck didn't really come alive until I replaced the worn out tires that were rolling over on the sidewall. Ya know things are bad when there are wear marks on the sidewall and one has to correct shortly after entering a turn because the tire rolls over onto the side wall changing your trajectory.

I had that problem with the factory tires and have battled that problem the entire time I have owned the truck. Try convincing a tire salesman that ya need a performance tire on a light truck. They give you :cus: tires that the sidewall is jello 10k miles after ya buy them. The factory tires were jello from the day the factory mounted them.

So the Spyder comes with tires that the sidewalls are jello from the factory. As soon as the fronts wear out, I am replacing them with performance auto tires as well.

 

[txknight67]

have any of you that are using auto tires noticed a difference in your mileage? I was just thinking if the tread is stiffer maybe it will role easyer :dontknow:

I just got it installed, so haven't been able to tell. I don't know how much of the mileage on this last tank of gas can be attributed to the BFG on the back and how much can be attributed to the fact I got some gas with no ethanol.

I'll keep ya updated as I get more data. I also still have the factory tires on the front.

 

[txknight67]

Or what type of vehicle I can or cannot ride/drive.
I agree with the cost thing too, I don't recall anyone other than those critical talking $$$. I am and I think those others are talking about IMPROVEMENT. If you believe a mass produced vehicle is at the upper limit of developement, then whatever the factory suggest will be more than adequate. I don't want adequate, I want better and that can only be determined by those willing to experiment.
The manufacturer also says in the owners manual that no trailer should be attached. Not that it needed to be attached to a particular area, but that it should not be..period. Now I see there are a couple of Spyder riders that added trailers to their vehicles long ago. None have expressed fear or panic because they were now riding "unsafe" vehicles. Even BRP is offering their own trailer package now. I know, the RT is expressly designed for it...WHAT does that mean. A complete redesign or just appropriate reinforcing in the neccessary areas. I am sure that most riders that attached one have already done that type work or the hitch people have , but most serious riders don't take their safety lightly, especially if they have decades of 2 wheels behind them.
Anyone running 20s,:joke:
When the Gold Wing was introduced in 1975, it's manufacturer GVW was less than 2 full sized riders. So technicly, if you had anything but a passenger( weight dependent on yours) you would be over the MFG's GVW. I can assure you, the Gold Wing didn't become what it is because people rode without accessories. I do know they warranteed a lot of mag wheels when they went to them, because the weight put on the bikes caused the bearing to open the bearing race within the wheel. No Cost warranty and the main reason was rider overloading. But Honda was trying to develop( which they more than did) a new "Touring" category.They knew that any issue that pointed to it's inability to be used like that was going to have negative long term affects. So what they basicly did was use the riders as a devlopment tool. I think there is sound merit in that.

:agree: I was going to make mention of the fact that manufacturers have to weigh all kinds of issues when selecting a tire; ride, safety, what the vehicle will normally be used for, etc. Or anything else on the vehicle. There is always room for improvement, to tune/tweak the vehicle to the way you use it.

 

[Firefly]

I already know that isn't all of the equation as I just recently totally re-built the front end of my '94 Dakota, replacing everything with Poly-Graphite bushings. I could tell a difference in handling, but the truck didn't really come alive until I replaced the worn out tires that were rolling over on the sidewall. Ya know things are bad when there are wear marks on the sidewall and one has to correct shortly after entering a turn because the tire rolls over onto the side wall changing your trajectory.

I had that problem with the factory tires and have battled that problem the entire time I have owned the truck. Try convincing a tire salesman that ya need a performance tire on a light truck. They give you :cus: tires that the sidewall is jello 10k miles after ya buy them. The factory tires were jello from the day the factory mounted them.

So the Spyder comes with tires that the sidewalls are jello from the factory. As soon as the fronts wear out, I am replacing them with performance auto tires as well.

I don't doubt for a minute that you had such issues on your Dakota--- but I don't think it's a good comparison to the Spyer front end. Totally different weight, wheelbase, steering, etc. Since the Spyder is so light and has 3 wheels - it doesn't have anywhere near the amount of weight bearing on the sidewalls as your Dakota would.

My thinking is that the sidewalls are soft for a good reason and may actually help cornering. I've not had any issues cornering - and I ride really hard (I take 45 mph curves @ 90mph all the time).

Let us know how you come out if you try new fronts......

You could probably get a good idea of the difference by changing tire pressure.

 

[bone crusher]

Come on mr crusher. It is not a conspiracy, I don't think anyone said it was, its a busness. They want to make money. Nothing more nothing less. Offering a safe product is in their best interest. Some options may be better but the profit margin is less so.......its busness:dontknow:
Someone with drive and curiosity, who is willing to poke around a bit to find an alternative is not foolish, far from it.
I am sure You will be served well by the OEM stuff but it may not be the only or the best option all the time.
2 days to Spyder!!!


RAL

Business is all about money...point is that the stock tire was tested on the bike and we know what it can do. There are many tires that might look better, but might not work as well on our vehicle. This is not to say that there are not better tires for the Spyder out there, but rubber densities along with so many other factors have to be considered and I think too many just think that they can replace the motorcycle tire with an auto tire and go...this might not be the case...but, with some tires, it might be okay...be cautious, I guess...:doorag:

 

[txknight67]

I don't doubt for a minute that you had such issues on your Dakota--- but I don't think it's a good comparison to the Spyer front end. Totally different weight, wheelbase, steering, etc. Since the Spyder is so light and has 3 wheels - it doesn't have anywhere near the amount of weight bearing on the sidewalls as your Dakota would.

My thinking is that the sidewalls are soft for a good reason and may actually help cornering. I've not had any issues cornering - and I ride really hard (I take 45 mph curves @ 90mph all the time).

Let us know how you come out if you try new fronts......

You could probably get a good idea of the difference by changing tire pressure.

:agree: with the difference in weight etc. Just sayin', the sway bar is only half of the equation, regardless of the weight on the front. The other half is a combination of the tire and the shocks. OH, scratch that, the softness of all the bushings is another part of the equation.

Again, there are a lot of trade offs the manufacturer has to consider when selecting pieces parts. #1 is safety; what exposes them to the least amount of liability. Is it the "best" choices for performance, I doubt it. The only vehicles those choices are made on are cars like the Viper track model, the Corvette ZR-1, and almost all the Ferrari's and Lambo's. And bikes like the Hayabusa and the Ducotti's(sp?). And even those it depends on what model you buy.

Over inflating the factory tires won't give one the same "feel" as an auto tire as that reduces the contact patch on the road.

The other thing I am thinking of doing is firming up the shocks. I was leaving them at the middle setting until I got more familiar with the bike and what it and I could do. I think I am too the point of playing with settings. I am starting to notice the "body" roll affecting where I want to aim the bike in a corner where when I first bought it I didn't.hyea:

 

[krb1945]

A question on the soft sidewalls

Soft sidewall question: when the roadster tires are inflated at 20 front and 28 rear with the sidewalls being soft could it lift part of the thread from the road surface during a high stress manuver? In other words sidewall rollover... could they let the rim hit the pavement or wad up lifting the thread during an emergency maneuver. Just wondering if it could happen with this light of a machine. Example... emergency left or right at speed with high brake load at the same time. /Ken

 

[bone crusher]

Soft sidewall question: when the roadster tires are inflated at 20 front and 28 rear with the sidewalls being soft could it lift part of the thread from the road surface during a high stress manuver? In other words sidewall rollover... could they let the rim hit the pavement or wad up lifting the thread during an emergency maneuver. Just wondering if it could happen with this light of a machine. Example... emergency left or right at speed with high brake load at the same time. /Ken

Uh....no...not an issue...I run my tires at 18 and 28 and not a problem with fast turns whether I'm braking hard or not...the OEM tire is quite good, in spite of what many think. As far as lifting a tire completely off the road, it can be done, but your VSS won't let you do it for too long! I once took a sharp turn while briskly accelerating, hit a pot hole while going uphill coming out of the turn, and lifted a tire...the bike made a quick adjustment and made sure it stayed straight...auto braking to get the tire down...

I don't see how the tires play into this...all the testing was done with OEM tires...they work fine under any and all stresses you throw at them...

 

[NancysToy]

O"dear there some questions about gen side of tyres and what some people are say The Dark Side, I done all the frount end work shocks,sway bar and Car tyres so i could ride the spyder like it should be.
Now the plus side on the std tyres, they are just fine if you want to take up knitting while you are been over taken by the horse and buggie into the corners.
Now doing the dark side thing is not a matter of buying retreads from bills garage sale for $9.95, reading about donnor tyres lots of it, its not hard and I tell you one thing I would never ever use std frount tyres again:yes:

I don't think it is necessary to be insulting here! Your tire choices (or oil choices, or octane choices) are yours, and fit your needs and desires. Others have made different choices and are just as satisfied. Lets not throw rocks at each other. Maybe its time to shut down this thread, too.