Sprocket Final Fix Update from Shawn Smoak

[gkamer]

Why do people like this guy's videos so much? I find it painful to sit through his videos for the few scraps of knowledge he might toss in somewhere. He has a ton of subscribers and what seems like a cult like following - so clearly people love him/his videos - so am I the only one who doesn't get it or actually get annoyed by them?

I usually skip past the opening minutes and start watching from when he arrives at work to see what he's going to cover. I'm only interested in the Spyder/Ryker video topics, so as soon as I see he's going to be addressing 2 wheeled motorcycles I move on.

 

[Quickdraw]

I had the white sprocket put on last summer and it immediately stopped the whining. I'm not sure I have to have it replaced with yet another sprocket.

 

[oldguyinTX]

Why do people like this guy's videos so much? I find it painful to sit through his videos for the few scraps of knowledge he might toss in somewhere. He has a ton of subscribers and what seems like a cult like following - so clearly people love him/his videos - so am I the only one who doesn't get it or actually get annoyed by them?

I agree. He really does just ramble around a lot. I lost track of how many times he picked up those sprockets and fumbled around with then. Just get to the point. A 25 minute could be like 9 minutes.

 

[stmike 1800]

sprocket

He had in his hand the only one to fail , yet i see many on this forum with problems .

 

[ulflyer]

My take on this is that the washer is there to protect the seal on the splined shaft when you have to heat the pulley to loosen the loctite to remove the pulley in the future when this fix also fails. I believe a shaft drive would eliminate the problem.:dontknow: ....:thumbup:...Bill

Perhaps also to provide more space on the outer flange to keep the belt from rubbing...depending on how it is adjusted.

 

[ClayJ]

He had in his hand the only one to fail , yet i see many on this forum with problems .

Most people have the red dust and a loose sprocket. It's a whole different thing when the sprocket completely fails and leaves you stranded without any drive. I'm the only one my mechanic had seen with a complete failure.

 

[Woodaddict]

He had in his hand the only one to fail , yet i see many on this forum with problems .

the ONLY one at THAT dealership that HE replaced!!

 

[Wmoater]

Here’s a question. I watched the video and he said the inner spline is deeper than the original. We’re also adding a washer to the inside. So basically we’re pushing that sprocket out 1/8 to 3/16 from factory setting correct? Isn’t everyone rear wheel going to have to be realigned since the belt will now really be tracked against the inside of the new sprocket? It’s going to squeak and squeal like a pig after 1000 miles if not. Maybe he meant the outside of the inner spline but still it will be min of 1/8 out now. Correct?

 

[Cobwebs]

Here’s a question. I watched the video and he said the inner spline is deeper than the original. We’re also adding a washer to the inside. So basically we’re pushing that sprocket out 1/8 to 3/16 from factory setting correct? Isn’t everyone rear wheel going to have to be realigned since the belt will now really be tracked against the inside of the new sprocket? It’s going to squeak and squeal like a pig after 1000 miles if not. Maybe he meant the outside of the inner spline but still it will be min of 1/8 out now. Correct?

They've machined the thickness of the washer off the inner pulley surface so no everything will still line up ok. Less actual spline surface area now than previous.:dontknow:

 

[Peteoz]

Here’s a question. I watched the video and he said the inner spline is deeper than the original. We’re also adding a washer to the inside. So basically we’re pushing that sprocket out 1/8 to 3/16 from factory setting correct? Isn’t everyone rear wheel going to have to be realigned since the belt will now really be tracked against the inside of the new sprocket? It’s going to squeak and squeal like a pig after 1000 miles if not. Maybe he meant the outside of the inner spline but still it will be min of 1/8 out now. Correct?

That wasn’t what I remembered from the video, Wmoater, so I just double checked and Smoaks says at 9:50 that the new spline is 35mm while the old is 40mm. That means the new sprocket, with the addition of the washer will be about the same as the old sprocket, not wider. Unless I have completely misunderstood what he is saying, which is quite possible in my dotage :2thumbs:

Pete

 

[Peter Aawen]

He had in his hand the only one to fail , yet i see many on this forum with problems .

Most people have the red dust and a loose sprocket. It's a whole different thing when the sprocket completely fails and leaves you stranded without any drive. I'm the only one my mechanic had seen with a complete failure.

the ONLY one at THAT dealership that HE replaced!!

As other's have noted, not all sprocket issues are initially identified or present as complete & terminal failures to proceed... :banghead: And another thing to bear in mind is that this Smoak fella is a company man thru & thru

IIRC, as far as he was concerned, the Heat Issues with the 2013's were a figment of some people's imagination or deliberate attempts to denigrate BRP & the fires that were proven to have occurred were purely coincidental, until the recall for Heat issues came out! And again, IIRC, the DESS issues were a figment of some people's imagination or deliberate attempts to denigrate BRP & the failures that were proven to have occurred were purely coincidental, until the Service Bulletins & Warranty Replacements started happening! And from what I can remember of those vids of his I've watched, these sprocket failures are a figment o..... Hmmm, anyone else starting to detect a trend here?!? :dontknow:

There's also been other things where he either completely ignored or otherwise refuted some clearly identified concerns early on, only to back-track or gloss over his earlier stance later on when the official recognition &/or fix came out! But in those of his vids I've watched, I reckon he's always been toe-ing the company line - whether that's cos he's just one of those types, or cos he's been warned off doing anything else, Who Knows?! :dontknow: Your guess is as good as mine on that one & AFAICan See, neither nor any guess we might come up with can be anything much more than a WAG or pure supposition!

Still, more power to him & his Missus for putting in the effort of filming, editing, and putting all of the stuff they do out there! :firstplace: You can't deny that they share a lot of themselves, even some potentially embarrasing stuff, and there's a lot of potentially helpful info to be found in his vids, IF you have the patience to sit & sift thru all the other stuff to find & identify the good bits of valuable info - only as always, if it's not supported &/or verified by other trusted sources, it's probably best to treat it as you would (or at least should! ) treat anything else you've gleaned from a Social Media site that's basically there for entertainment purposes! :banghead:

So sure, watch the vids if that sorta stuff is what floats your goat, you'll probably find some helpful info in them - just don't necessarily drink any of & certainly not ALL the Kool-Aid; cos the stuff he serves up is very much flavoured by the 'BRP Official Corporate stance of the moment' and we all know that is rarely the full story! :lecturef_smilie: Or do we?!?

 

[oldguyinTX]

Well, there are some folks out there that have their heads so far up BRP's *** (no names) that they can see the sun rise in the West. The BRP corporate stance has always been deny, deny, deny, deflect, deflect, deflect, stall, stall, stall. Anybody ever wondered how many owners of 2013 RT's were offered payouts of some sort, and sometime years down the line for folks that held on to their 2013's for whatever reason, on the condition that they keep their mouths shut and not disclose ANYTHING about any sort of agreement or settlement? That includes posting on social media, Emails, word of mouth, or any disclosure of any kind under the signed NDA that BRP required in order to reach an agreement and get some sort monetary relief which, for the most part, was paltry. Sad, but true. I went through all of the NHTSA paperwork at the time and counted up the number of 2013 fires, and came up with 40+instances (don't recall the exact number, I got rid of all that paperwork when I got rid of my 2013 RTL). But is was way higher than what BRP alluded to at the time. Lord help me, I love my Spyder, but I really dislike BRP. My current one will be my last.

 

[pegasus1300]

This recall BRP is doing is no different than BMW 4 years ago. It just took longer to get enacted. BMW had to recall the entire fleet of certain models due to the direct shaft drive problem. I have a buddy who was really nervous. They literally took the entire bike apart to do the recall. BRP is minimal assembly. The BMW was all around the direct shaft system. So direct or belt both have their problems. I believe in lat 80’s, Honda had to do it with their shadow and nighthawk, or atleast I remember my stator and drive system was recalled back then.

And Yamaha had to do it for the transmission and shaft drive on their early Ventures. The shaft drive is expensive and heavy and a power robber.

 

[Little Blue]

Thanksgiving

:chat:.....Seems like the older one gets the faster one forgets.

Stay Healthy. ....:thumbup:

 

[stmike 1800]

sprocket

I guess i should have have chose my words better. Shawn only saw one failed, yet there have been more on this forum.

 

[Wmoater]

That wasn’t what I remembered from the video, Wmoater, so I just double checked and Smoaks says at 9:50 that the new spline is 35mm while the old is 40mm. That means the new sprocket, with the addition of the washer will be about the same as the old sprocket, not wider. Unless I have completely misunderstood what he is saying, which is quite possible in my dotage :2thumbs:

Pete

You’re right. I was not totally focused just casually listening. I thought I heard vise versa when he had the tape measure out.

 

[PMK]

Can Am once again gets an F in the engineering class. The solution of Loctite to glue the pulley on the shaft can work. Granted, the engineers never considered removal. At a minimum all the pulleys should have been drilled and tapped to allow a simple common bird foot puller to draw the pulley off the shaft with ease when needed.

The shim, I suspect the engineers are placing bets that the pulley retaining bolt bottomed before reaching proper force into the assembly to prevent movement. Seems as the pulley splines wear, obviously the pulleys end mounting faces will wear against the gearbox shaft. That is why the pulleys that failed have a worn ridge where it mates to the step in the gearbox shaft. That shim washer probably has a larger OD than the shafts step, and will ensure complete tightness, even if the shaft has worn.

The Loctite is the savior. Had they correctly redesigned the installation, utilizing two cones with split cuts to clamp the shaft, fretting would have been prevented, but typical Millenial Engineers...BTW, split cone spline drive setups have proven themselves reliable for over a century. Why even consider proven technology.

 

[FrogmanDave]

I personally think Shawn Smoak knows his stuff. He is a very knowledgeable mechanic. Spyder or otherwise. If you don't like the style of his videos, then don't watch them. He spends a lot of time recording and editing them so we all have what information he gives us. I just don't understand all the Smoak haters out there.

As far as this recall is concerned, I believe all of you have concrete information on how your Spyder's will be fixed. I haven't seen any other information on the internet that explains it (at least in a video format). You owe that to him if nothing else.

 

[Cobwebs]

Can Am once again gets an F in the engineering class. The solution of Loctite to glue the pulley on the shaft can work. Granted, the engineers never considered removal. At a minimum all the pulleys should have been drilled and tapped to allow a simple common bird foot puller to draw the pulley off the shaft with ease when needed.

The shim, I suspect the engineers are placing bets that the pulley retaining bolt bottomed before reaching proper force into the assembly to prevent movement. Seems as the pulley splines wear, obviously the pulleys end mounting faces will wear against the gearbox shaft. That is why the pulleys that failed have a worn ridge where it mates to the step in the gearbox shaft. That shim washer probably has a larger OD than the shafts step, and will ensure complete tightness, even if the shaft has worn.

The Loctite is the savior. Had they correctly redesigned the installation, utilizing two cones with split cuts to clamp the shaft, fretting would have been prevented, but typical Millenial Engineers...BTW, split cone spline drive setups have proven themselves reliable for over a century. Why even consider proven technology.

So do you think the new pulleys are still the same from a metallergical point of view and they've just painted them grey and skimmed a chunk off them to allow for the washer? Bloke should skim a few thou off the bolt end just to be sure too, either that or a dab of weld should secure the mongrel on there.
Can't believe it's taken so long to get such a lame repair underway.:banghead:

 

[PMK]

So do you think the new pulleys are still the same from a metallergical point of view and they've just painted them grey and skimmed a chunk off them to allow for the washer? Bloke should skim a few thou off the bolt end just to be sure too, either that or a dab of weld should secure the mongrel on there.
Can't believe it's taken so long to get such a lame repair underway.:banghead:

Guess that is a question best answered by Shawn Smoak.