2016 Spyder F3 hard starting when hot.

[ZombieWoof]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but I can't seem to find the thread, so my apologies...

2016 Spyder F3, starts fine in the morning, but even a quick 10 minute trip, once the engine is at operating temperature and I turn the bike off, it strains to start again. Acts like the battery is drained, but once it cools back down it fires right back up. 2 years ago I put a new battery in and thought the issue was resolved, but within a couple weeks issue was back.

Initial start voltage is 12.4, when running mid 13's, when hard starting voltage is 12.4 but drops into the 10's, and 8's if pushed.

Hard start sound effect: (Normal turn over sound) ER, ER, ER...Pause...ER Er... longer pause... Er....even longer pause........ er..... lights dim and not even trying...

It's time for a new battery, (Maybe LIPO) and I remember reading a bypass fix on something involving the intake (I think) but can't find the article again...
Riding season is coming and I'd like my "toy" to behave, especially when riding with groups.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

TYIA

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, you've done the proper troubleshooting, and said it yourself. "It's time for a new battery". It is.

 

[BajaRon]

If your battery drops to around 11v or less during the cranking process, that's not enough to reliably start a Spyder. Frankly, I'm amazed it starts at all if dipping into the 8v range.

Be sure your battery is fully charged. A trickle charger won't get it. And I highly recommend a charger that has a desulfinate component. For a lead/acid battery, this can add substantially to the lifespan.

Of course you always want to check for tight terminals and corrosion. And be sure to get a quality battery (not so easy these days) with at least 350 CCA.

 

[jjc54]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but I can't seem to find the thread, so my apologies...

2016 Spyder F3, starts fine in the morning, but even a quick 10 minute trip, once the engine is at operating temperature and I turn the bike off, it strains to start again. Acts like the battery is drained, but once it cools back down it fires right back up. 2 years ago I put a new battery in and thought the issue was resolved, but within a couple weeks issue was back.

Initial start voltage is 12.4, when running mid 13's, when hard starting voltage is 12.4 but drops into the 10's, and 8's if pushed.

Hard start sound effect: (Normal turn over sound) ER, ER, ER...Pause...ER Er... longer pause... Er....even longer pause........ er..... lights dim and not even trying...

It's time for a new battery, (Maybe LIPO) and I remember reading a bypass fix on something involving the intake (I think) but can't find the article again...
Riding season is coming and I'd like my "toy" to behave, especially when riding with groups.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

TYIA

Your Spyder does not act like mine. My initial cranking speed is noticeably slower especially if a cold morning. After a ride and restart the engine spins much quicker. Can it be that after your engine warms up the starter drags? Sorry, I don't know how to troubleshoot that. Just a thought after your last battery started doing this within a couple weeks. Good luck!

 

[BajaRon]

A hot starter will always draw more than a cool one, and a starter going bad is always a possibility. But we've seen zero bad starters on any Spyder so far. Again, not that it can't happy and not a bad idea to eliminate it as your source for hot start issues.

Has anyone out there had to replace a starter on you Spyder?

On the other hand, because the Spyder is so demanding of its battery and battery failures are so very common, I would definitely look there first.

 

[ZombieWoof]

I mentioned before my 2015 F3 SM6 is hard to start when hot.
I recently added a LIFEPO battery and it definitely helped... BUT...
I participated in a parade for the 4th, below idle speed, and I could tell the bike was getting hot, although the temp gauge never went above half
After the parade, we parked, chatted, and went to leave, but the bike wouldn't start... just a "click" then nothing. 13.2 volts on the meter, all electronics are on, turned the key off and back on, went thru the start cycle and still just a click.. and then not even a click. Bump started the bike to get it home, and it has the same problem still. According to the intertubes, there is a starter fuse on the right side under the frunk, but damned if I can see one?!

Do I assume the starter is dead or am I missing something?

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

whoops never mind the original post , I just read you bump started it.

But I would definitely start with the fuses since it was hot out yesterday.

Fuses are in boxes to the left and right towards the back of the compartment. Sounds like you need to go to the right one.

 

[BajaRon]

Check your Starter Solenoid Relay.

 

[djh3]

If the starter "clicks" there is power getting to circuit, other wise it would not do that. A weak relay could be a fault. But nn a lot of my past experiences with automotive and bike's, slow to turn over or say windows don't go up quite as fast as they used to, it's the ground circuit. Not only the grounds from the battery to cable, but also the other end where it goes to the chassis. Also, I would see if you can look at the grounds under any modules.

 

[Mikey]

x2!! Check all connections, clean, and tighten them!

 

[Jackhartjr]

I would make sure that your battery is fully charged. I know that you said you put a new battery in it.

 

[ZombieWoof]

whoops never mind the original post , I just read you bump started it.

But I would definitely start with the fuses since it was hot out yesterday.

Fuses are in boxes to the left and right towards the back of the compartment. Sounds like you need to go to the right one.

Neither fuse box has anything labeled Starter or Solenoid.

Check your Starter Solenoid Relay.

Any idea where it's located? Also, there are two heavy wires going into the starter, with the ignition on and going to ground, each one read 5.5 volts... When hitting the start button, no voltage change. I will have to measure across the wires next. Battery read 13.1 volts and all other acc. are working including head lights. The "Click" make me think the solenoid is working... but never assume!

 

[racoon]

Neither fuse box has anything labeled Starter or Solenoid.

The Operator's Guide for my 2024 Spyder shows Fuse #8 in the Left Fuse Box is for:

Fuel pump / EVAP / Starter relay / HO2S heaters

You can download a PDF copy from the following link, and then easily search for the information:

3-Wheel Vehicles | BRP GUIDES

www.operatorsguides.brp.com

 

[BajaRon]

The solenoid itself is not fused. I agree with djh3, not a high potential for failure. Just something else to check. Others had already listed the first, go to items.

Voltage is one thing, current, or amperage is another. You can have good voltage but starters need both. If you don't have good, solid, corrosion free connections. Amperage can suffer and give you starting issues. Of course it could be your starter. Or even a bad connection at the starter, or at the solenoid. All need to be checked.

But if your battery is weak, which is the most likely of all possibilities, that's where you need to start.

 

[Bfromla]

What’s the CCA on new battery? Believe YUSA -230CCA

 

[2dogs]

Do a load test.

 

[BajaRon]

What’s the CCA on new battery? Believe YUSA -230CCA

The battery we use, Yausa YTX24HL-BS, has 350 CCA.

 

[Bfromla]

The battery we use, Yausa YTX24HL-BS, has 350 CCA.

Thank you for correction

 

[ZombieWoof]

Good Morning Can Am People.

I posted previously about not starting when hot, and by isolating all my accessories to a wireless controlled solenoid, I stopped having hot engine starting issues.

Until yesterday.

(Battery is LIFEPO and showing good voltage, has has no issues starting the Trike until now, 99% sure not a battery issue)

Ran up to the hardware store, maybe a 10 min. ride, and when I turned the key off, I could hear the starter spinning. I put the key in the On position and bike fired right up... I tried turning it off a couple of times, but the issue persists. If I use the handlebar kill button, it stops. This does not forebode well I thought.
Finished my business, and of course, the bike refused to start. I got lights, but not even a click. Got a push start and it fired right up. (Another reason to love a bike with a clutch)

Got home, dove into the frunk, and it appeared the starter solenoid had died. I had replaced it earlier when I had the original problems, but bench testing confirmed that it was dead. Off to auto parts, and I ended up with a heavy duty solenoid - for an F150 truck, I believe. I wired everything back up and she started right up, but when I turned her off, it tried to start itself again. The Off switch had no affect this time, so I pulled the ground off the battery. I checked the R2 circuit by playing swap with another relay, no change. But I did find that if the igniter wire (yellow/red) was pulled, the engine would stop. I had a charity event in a few hours, so I wired up a switch to disconnect the wire, tried it a few times, and it worked fine to stop the engine.

After the event, again the bike refused to start, so I got a push start from friends and got her home. My friend said he could hear the solenoid clicking, so I'm going to assume it is actually the starter this time (I will confirm the relay is actually working.)

So... does anyone have a link to a video or have a manual that details starter removal and replacement? My current plan is to pull the starter and bench test it.

TIA, ZW

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

So, where is the solenoid on an F3? Up there beside the battery? How about just doing a quick solenoid bypass first and see if the starter runs.

Removal - Just remove the power wire, remove the two mounting bolts and pull it straight out of the case. I'm sure that you can figure out how to get to it.