ZombieWoof
New member
Solenoid test is first on the list before I tear into it.
https://nicheindustries.com is listing a new starter at less than $60...
https://nicheindustries.com/products/niche-519-csm2357o
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2016 Spyder F3 hard starting when hot.
- Thread starter ZombieWoof
- Start date
https://nicheindustries.com is listing a new starter at less than $60...
https://nicheindustries.com/products/niche-519-csm2357o
ZombieWoof
New member
Well this is interesting... Connecting the battery directly to the starter cable, the starter turns over. The brand new heavy duty solenoid appears to be dead, I will pull it and bench test.
So the next question is, what can kill a solenoid like that???
So the next question is, what can kill a solenoid like that???
Snowbelt Spyder
Well-known member
Well, when you hit the start button, like you were going to do a normal startup, is the coil side of the solenoid getting voltage from the pre-start relay?
Cobranut
Well-known member
I'd replace the relay that feeds the starter solenoid first. It's cheap and easy, and if the solenoid isn't getting a strong trigger signal it could cause your symptom.
ZombieWoof
New member
I swapped the R2 relay previously, no change. Confirmed the new solenoid was dead, bought a premium for replacement, going in today after cleaning up some aux wiring.
I get the feeling the original issue is still going to be there... the self starting problem with key off.
Do you know the expected voltages on the wires going to the solenoid?
I get the feeling the original issue is still going to be there... the self starting problem with key off.
Do you know the expected voltages on the wires going to the solenoid?
It should be the same as when you check at the battery!
Snowbelt Spyder
Well-known member
Self starting problem with the key off???? I don't even want to know! If you made some electrical mods to your machine in the past, maybe it's time to undo those.
When Pre-Start Relay, R2 (left) energizes, it applies full battery voltage from F8 (left) to the starter motor. The return to ground for the motor is internal. That's why just one wire. You could probably benefit from a manual at this point. There's no good reason why you should be having so many electrical glitches and it would help you answer a lot of questions.
brpmanuals.com
When Pre-Start Relay, R2 (left) energizes, it applies full battery voltage from F8 (left) to the starter motor. The return to ground for the motor is internal. That's why just one wire. You could probably benefit from a manual at this point. There's no good reason why you should be having so many electrical glitches and it would help you answer a lot of questions.
2016 Can-Am Spyder F3 Series Repair and Maintenance Manual Master Collection
Professional High Definition Keyword Searchable Factory OEM Manual - 1437Pages Covers 2016 Can-Am Spyder F3 series models (Auto & Manual) including: 2016 Spyder F3 2016 Spyder F3-S 2016 Spyder F3-T 2016 Spyder F3 Limited This is NOT a scan, this manual is from the original digital source. This...
brpmanuals.com
ZombieWoof
New member
Self starting problem with the key off???? I don't even want to know! If you made some electrical mods to your machine in the past, maybe it's time to undo those.
When Pre-Start Relay, R2 (left) energizes, it applies full battery voltage from F8 (left) to the starter motor. The return to ground for the motor is internal. That's why just one wire. You could probably benefit from a manual at this point. There's no good reason why you should be having so many electrical glitches and it would help you answer a lot of questions.
2016 Can-Am Spyder F3 Series Repair and Maintenance Manual Master Collection
Professional High Definition Keyword Searchable Factory OEM Manual - 1437Pages Covers 2016 Can-Am Spyder F3 series models (Auto & Manual) including: 2016 Spyder F3 2016 Spyder F3-S 2016 Spyder F3-T 2016 Spyder F3 Limited This is NOT a scan, this manual is from the original digital source. This...
The hard start issue was resolved by moving all accessories to a separate remote relay. When that relay is in the off position, as far as the bike is concerned it thinks it has no accessories at all. The LiFePo battery also seems to have made a difference.
There are 2 wires going to the solenoid, 12v to "S" to activate, but also a wire going to "I"
The internet says:
The "S" and "I" terminals on a starter relay (or solenoid) have distinct functions:
- The "S" terminal stands for "Start" and is connected to the ignition switch. When you turn the ignition key to the "start" position, voltage is sent to the S terminal, which energizes the relay and causes the starter motor to crank the engine.
- The "I" terminal stands for "Ignition." When the relay is activated, this terminal provides power directly to the ignition coil, bypassing the ballast resistor, and supplying full battery voltage for a stronger spark during cranking. This is primarily used on older vehicles with resistance in the ignition circuit during normal running.
As a quick work around, I wired a switch to break the S terminal line when turning off the bike, but the new relay failed, within a couple hours apparently. Bench test confirms it's not working, stuck open. I just purchased a "premium" solenoid and I'm almost ready to start the bike back up, but I have a feeling the original self starting issue will return.
So the big question is why is the S terminal still getting voltage with the bike off? I swapped the R2 relay and that didn't seem to help.
I did find a thread here with the same issue, but apparently the issue resolved itself.
Snowbelt Spyder
Well-known member
Sigh! Hey Woof. It looks like the Mods have merged your other post to this one, and now we can refresh our memory to the whole story. Sorry to say, but it looks like, to me, that this entire saga was mostly self inflicted. The number one rule of thumb for solving any operational problem or fault code issue with a Spyder - or anything else for that matter - is to find and solve the root cause. Unfortunately, you've never done any of that. Everything has been focused on bypasses and work arounds.
This is the first we're hearing about re-arranging the electrical system to move all of your accessories to an "auxiliary relay". What??? We have no idea how that is wired up. And there is some other switch you added in order to remove a mystery voltage that was never investigated. Not to mention, that you have never used Spyder specific manuals, even when prompted to do so, more than once. You've been bouncing around the internet, instead.
Take the above information from the internet that you have in bold, for example. That is a perfect explanation of the solenoid circuit for a "59 Ford. Ballast resistor? Nothing to do with a Spyder. When you turn on the key on a Spyder, the Main Relay energizes and supplies 12v power to the major electrical circuits. Power goes through F8L to the input side of the Pre-Start Relay. The output side goes to your Start Pushbutton. When you push the button, the relay energizes - and audibly clicks - and sends 12v power to the input side of the coil for the solenoid. Not the big, fat, red wire, the little wire. Nothing happens yet. The outlet side of the solenoid coil goes straight to the ECM. There are no other connections to ignition coils, ballast resistors, or anything else. THE ECM DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT TO ALLOW THE SOLENOID TO OPERATE AND SPIN THE STARTER, BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE MET THE START PERMISSIVES.
So, what are they. Well, you have a SM6. There's a clutch and clutch switch involved - the brake and brake light switch is involved - the Kill Switch is involved - the gearbox in Neutral is involved - the Gear Box Position Sensor is involved - and of course the Safety Card / Mode Switch is involved. No evidence of any of those ever being checked in your posts. And we have no idea why you are burning out solenoids, or why they are not turning off when they should, because you haven't investigated the actual cause. You've just done work rounds, added relays and switches that obviously didn't work. Bottom line, we have no idea why the solenoid is getting voltage with the key off, because we don't know how you've modified the system. If swapping relays doesn't work, then keep looking - don't just add a switch. The internet is not going to help you.
So, one last time. Get the Spyder F3 Repair Manual. Get a friend that knows how to read an electrical drawing. Buy him lunch and an adult beverage of his choice, Rip out all of that extra wiring, relays, switches, accessories, and other junk that you have in there, and return the bike to stock condition. In other words, push the RESET Button. Then find out if you even have a problem. Sorry for the soapbox. I hate it when that happens. Good Luck.
This is the first we're hearing about re-arranging the electrical system to move all of your accessories to an "auxiliary relay". What??? We have no idea how that is wired up. And there is some other switch you added in order to remove a mystery voltage that was never investigated. Not to mention, that you have never used Spyder specific manuals, even when prompted to do so, more than once. You've been bouncing around the internet, instead.
Take the above information from the internet that you have in bold, for example. That is a perfect explanation of the solenoid circuit for a "59 Ford. Ballast resistor? Nothing to do with a Spyder. When you turn on the key on a Spyder, the Main Relay energizes and supplies 12v power to the major electrical circuits. Power goes through F8L to the input side of the Pre-Start Relay. The output side goes to your Start Pushbutton. When you push the button, the relay energizes - and audibly clicks - and sends 12v power to the input side of the coil for the solenoid. Not the big, fat, red wire, the little wire. Nothing happens yet. The outlet side of the solenoid coil goes straight to the ECM. There are no other connections to ignition coils, ballast resistors, or anything else. THE ECM DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT TO ALLOW THE SOLENOID TO OPERATE AND SPIN THE STARTER, BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE MET THE START PERMISSIVES.
So, what are they. Well, you have a SM6. There's a clutch and clutch switch involved - the brake and brake light switch is involved - the Kill Switch is involved - the gearbox in Neutral is involved - the Gear Box Position Sensor is involved - and of course the Safety Card / Mode Switch is involved. No evidence of any of those ever being checked in your posts. And we have no idea why you are burning out solenoids, or why they are not turning off when they should, because you haven't investigated the actual cause. You've just done work rounds, added relays and switches that obviously didn't work. Bottom line, we have no idea why the solenoid is getting voltage with the key off, because we don't know how you've modified the system. If swapping relays doesn't work, then keep looking - don't just add a switch. The internet is not going to help you.
So, one last time. Get the Spyder F3 Repair Manual. Get a friend that knows how to read an electrical drawing. Buy him lunch and an adult beverage of his choice, Rip out all of that extra wiring, relays, switches, accessories, and other junk that you have in there, and return the bike to stock condition. In other words, push the RESET Button. Then find out if you even have a problem. Sorry for the soapbox. I hate it when that happens. Good Luck.
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