Any advice on adjusting toe on the front wheels? Is the job doable without BUDS?

[NorwegianRT]

Hi all!
My RT has uneven tyre wear, but it is equal on the inside of both wheels, so I think there is too much toe out?
I have seen a youtube video where a guy has made his own tool with some square pipes.
If I make a set of this tool and keep the steering straight forward, is there anything to worry about regarding the steering position sensor?
Or is the job doable without Buds??
My local mechanic is away for two days on a work related course, so thought I would ask in here first!

 

[BajaRon]

There is a steering angle sensor that is very important. Any adjustment to alignment needs to take this sensor into consideration. If you get outside the parameters, you will create a 'Limp Home Mode'. Not much fun.

I highly recommend a laser alignment and BUDS connection to zero the SAS. You will not believe the improvement you'll find with a properly aligned front end on the Spyder.

 

[NorwegianRT]

There is a steering angle sensor that is very important. Any adjustment to alignment needs to take this sensor into consideration. If you get outside the parameters, you will create a 'Limp Home Mode'. Not much fun.

I highly recommend a laser alignment and BUDS connection to zero the SAS. You will not believe the improvement you'll find with a properly aligned front end on the Spyder.

Thank you @BajaRon
Very informative. I will get in contact with my local CanAm mechanic and ask if he has the needed tools for my issue.

 

[2dogs]

I had Joe and Ann, who owned Squared Away, align my spyder years ago. It came from the dealer with (if I recall correctly) a right front wheel 2 1/4" out of alignment. They showed me their findings and why my tire was wearing more than the other one. Many dealers don't do alignments during their pre-sale prep work. It's easy for the new owner to check their toe-in and toe-out, but the rest of the alignment is a bit complicated for the average Joe. The alignment is based on the rear tire's position. Who'd have thought? So when you go to replace the rear tire (because it wears out much faster than the fronts), you want someone who knows what they are doing. That goes for the belt adjustment too. I've been on rides with other Spyder owners (not many, because wifey and I generally ride alone), and I've noticed more than one Spyder in front of me going down the road slightly sideways. Oops, slightly out of alignment there buddy. Get that checked out when you get home.

 

[mecsw500]

I suspect somebody who really knows what they are doing could align everything without a laser system, but that would be somebody very experienced in what they are doing and has had years of practice. I suspect the laser system is far more accurate for the vast majority of techs.

Getting the fronts aligned with the thrust line of the rear wheel is the important thing, not necessarily with the center line of the chassis exactly.

We are talking about a millimeter or less of measurement across the diameter of the front wheel. You want toe-in not toe-out. Toe-out, or even excessive toe-in will give uneven tire wear and make it wander about a bit.

I would ask your tech how he intends to do the alignment. It can be done without a laser alignment, but it needs someone with years of experience under their belt, not someone reading from a book.

I would recommend a laser alignment as the most reliable method as that will not only show up alignment issue but will also likely show if your rear wheel thrust line is accurately aligned enough to the frame and not miles out from someone who set the belt tension without regards to an accurate rear wheel thrust line.

The OP being in Southern Norway, I have no idea if there are any Can Am Spyder shops in Norway with laser alignment capabilities. It might be worth calling around your major Can Am dealers to see how they do things. It might also be worth checking Denmark or Northern Germany if you are willing to travel a little further.

It will probably require a BUDS system to ensure the steering angle sensor is set correctly too.

 

[NorwegianRT]

Update:
My local Can Am mechanic has the tools needed to fix my toe issues.
Luckily, it is "just" an hours drive away from me.
Leaving Wednesday morning for a trip with some friends and will be back home Sunday 14th, so the tyres will have to do for this ride.
I will book shop time with the mechanic when I get back home.

@mecsw500 Thanks for input.
There are 4-5 Can Am dealers in my part of the country, but the others (except my local one) are mostly about 4 wheelers - seadoos and skidoos.
My local also changed the drivebelt for me last year and I was told they had the equipment needed to do this. I think they set the tension of the belt acousticaly?? But I will make sure to ask how they do it when booking shop time.

@2dogs Thank you also for input.
I will check with the mechanic to make sure they can set the rear properly before adjusting the front. I would hate to crawl sideways down the road.

 

[BajaRon]

I suspect somebody who really knows what they are doing could align everything without a laser system...

I don't see how, though there have been those who say they can. Lamont and I spent several days trying a good number of ways to do this and were woefully unsuccessful. The front of a Spyder, coupled with alignment of the rear wheel, reqires very exacting tolerances to be right. You might get close with another method. But the laser measures out several feet, greatly exaggerating the misalignment numbers and allowing the fine adjustment needed.

This is why you'll hear rediculously high 'Out of alignment' numbers. There is no way you could go down the road an inch or more out of alignment at the wheel.

I will check with the mechanic to make sure they can set the rear properly before adjusting the front. I would hate to crawl sideways down the road.

If they are able to align the front correctly (laser), then they are certainly able to align the rear. This is something you can do yourself at home.

 

[mecsw500]

There’s a little tension tool they usually have for setting drive belt tension. It’s a “sonic belt tensioner tool” and even has a BRP part number. There are other equivalent products made by belt manufacturers themselves which work too so it’s a common tool for setting belt tension accurately. Every Can Am Spyder dealer should have one as it would be a very common tool to use.

Some people have welded up mechanical frameworks to do alignment jobs with a jig like apparatus. Some amateur race car teams use such jigs as doing laser alignment in the field might not always be practical, plus their jigs work for camber etc as well.

That’s what we used to use for our racing sidecars as they are asymmetrical and everything is more complex suspension and alignment geometry wise. However we did everything with the bodywork off. Getting it a bit wrong made it usually twitchy under braking, complicated by my passenger moving around.

I was surprised by the instances where strings or wires are still used in competitive Motorsport.

Le Mans teams use them to quickly check alignment after damage to get the car back out there. Rally teams use strings and tape measures between stages after damage as they are good enough and quick to set up.

Some race car teams in certain classes still use string, or wire, boxes today and with a lot of skill they seemed to make it work. Even formula one teams today sometimes use reference wires as part of their digital alignment systems.

Of course, getting that all important rear wheel thrust alignment correct on a Spyder is the really difficult part. Doing that with string or wire boxes is not easy. You really need a reliably square frame to base the strings from as you are talking sub millimeter accuracy required.

However, like Baja Ron says in the real world of Spyder’s and Rykers it’s much easier to do it properly with laser alignment I’m sure. The advantage of laser alignment like says is that it’s done over a longer distances than the width of a wheel rim so it is inherently more accurate to compute angles.

Getting the toe-in is relatively easy of course, but it has to be done with regard to the thrust line of the rear wheel otherwise all bets are off.

I’ve never seen the laser system Baja Ron uses and was always interested in to know if they shine the lasers forwards or backwards to make it easier to get the rear wheel aligned as a reference point?

 

[BajaRon]

The rear wheel of a Spyder/Ryker/Canyon is aligned using belt location on the pulley. Not a frame or other relational measurement. What you are looking for with the rear wheel is trajectory or direction. Then you use the front wheel lasers to align them in the same direction with the appropriate toe in.

 

[AbNormy]

There is a steering angle sensor that is very important. Any adjustment to alignment needs to take this sensor into consideration. If you get outside the parameters, you will create a 'Limp Home Mode'. Not much fun.

I highly recommend a laser alignment and BUDS connection to zero the SAS. You will not believe the improvement you'll find with a properly aligned front end on the Spyder.

Wondering if there's anyone near Austin Tx who has had theirs aligned? No tire wear issues and so far, it's been fun, but curious...

 

[mecsw500]

The rear wheel of a Spyder/Ryker/Canyon is aligned using belt location on the pulley. Not a frame or other relational measurement. What you are looking for with the rear wheel is trajectory or direction. Then you use the front wheel lasers to align them in the same direction with the appropriate toe in.

Oh that makes sense now. I wondered how you did it. I was trying to figure out how you got a laser system attached to the rear wheel and lined up everything with that. This of course introduces a level of experience and expertise in deciding whether the rear wheel line of thrust is correct, or, not by the belt position.

Did you just learn how to read the thrust line from the belt position from experience?

 

[NorwegianRT]

Some good informative reading here guys. thank you all.

Not familiar with all your tech terms in English, but since my belt is perfectly positioned on the rear, does that mean my front wheels are ready for laser allignment ? No rear wheel adjusting needed ?