Any advice on adjusting toe on the front wheels? Is the job doable without BUDS?

[jcthorne]

Wondering if there's anyone near Austin Tx who has had theirs aligned? No tire wear issues and so far, it's been fun, but curious...

We are a Rolo Laser alignment shop and located in North Houston. We also do all the alignment referrals for the local dealerships.

 

[mecsw500]

I have another machine that uses the same kind of belt. If I lose one or two teeth, it never lets you know it. But lose more, and you'll know it immediately. You'll find yourself dead in the water, so to speak. I don't know of any other way to prevent that other than a visual check, and that entails almost standing on your head.

There is a rock protector device you can install. This might mitigate gravel and small rocks getting stuck in the belt in the first place.

https://spyderpops.com/the-missing-belt-guard-rt-models-2014-present/

 

[Dasmoetorhead]

Just so I know, why a Laser alingment?
Last time I was getting tires for the Jeep, I asked the owner of the shop who is a friend of mine, if they could use a laser on my Spyder when needed. They told me they only use a camera alingment rig. Supposed to be more accurate. Just wondering.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just so I know, why a Laser alignment?
Last time I was getting tires for the Jeep, I asked the owner of the shop, who is a friend of mine, if they could use a laser on my Spyder when needed. They told me they only use a camera alingment rig. Supposed to be more accurate. Just wondering.

The 'laser' is just the tool/methodology used; a camera alignment rig is another. Both are generally considered to be 'easier to get things right' than the old school sticks &/or tape measure alignment methods.

That said, any of these alignment tools/methods, when used by competent techs, can provide good results, even the old school and very basic methods using sticks &/or tape measures - altho the higher tech methods are definitely considered to be easier & repeatable by most, the key words here are '... when used by competent techs'.

 

[mecsw500]

The 'laser' is just the tool/methodology used; a camera alignment rig is another. Both are generally considered to be 'easier to get things right' than the old school sticks &/or tape measure alignment methods.

That said, any of these alignment tools/methods, when used by competent techs, can provide good results, even the old school and very basic methods using sticks &/or tape measures - altho the higher tech methods are definitely considered to be easier & repeatable by most, the key words here are '... when used by competent techs'.

Even some professional race teams sometimes use "string frames" to help set alignment, depending upon the race series. Of course they have to set far more than just toe. If you know what you are doing the old methods are still accurate enough, but the modern equipment and techniques make it easier and probably quicker. As you say, knowing how to use the tools you have is of course the most important requirement. I seriously doubt the camera rig is significantly better than a laser rig. Both are probably more than accurate enough for a Spyder when "used correctly."

Back when I got my previous 2021 Spyder, I checked the alignment using strings and also a rig I made myself from rifle bore sight lasers and my garage wall. I wanted to make sure both methods gave the same results.

So, I did some experiments. I set some toe out and even significant toe in to see what the results were like when riding. Neither situation was catastrophic. A few degrees of toe out made it wander a bit, but much less than I was expecting, but cornering wasn't affected as far as I could feel. It just hunted enough in a straight line to be noticeable and needed constant minor correction. Significant toe in made it a bit twitchy in corners, like it couldn't decide which wheel line to follow. With a small amount of toe in, it was perfect, actually how it came from the factory on my unit. My new 2026 Spyder seems also to be set correctly from the factory too, but I'm led to believe this isn't always so for everybody. In both cases the rear belt alignment was correct, suggesting the rear wheel was aligned correctly and the steering was centered correctly.

 

[Peter Aawen]

... With a small amount of toe in, it was perfect, actually how it came from the factory on my unit. My new 2026 Spyder seems also to be set correctly from the factory too, but I'm led to believe this isn't always so for everybody. In both cases the rear belt alignment was correct, suggesting the rear wheel was aligned correctly and the steering was centered correctly.

I wonder if that ^ was actually 'the factory's' doing, or (possibly more likely?! ) a conscientious and competent tech doing/supervising the final assembly/pre-delivery at your dealership?

And while we're talking about 'competent techs' & the likelihood that you had one doing your new 2026 Spyder's assembly, I wonder if that might also go a long way toward explaining why you've been lucky enough to do reasonably well with your OEM Kenda tires when so many others haven't?!

As a bit of an aside, but still along those lines, you can't by any chance recall if you ever checked/knew what your Spyder's rear tire pressure was on delivery, can you? I'm just chasing a thoughty.

 

[mecsw500]

I wonder if that ^ was actually 'the factory's' doing, or (possibly more likely?! ) a conscientious and competent tech doing/supervising the final assembly/pre-delivery at your dealership?

And while we're talking about 'competent techs' & the likelihood that you had one doing your new 2026 Spyder's assembly, I wonder if that might also go a long way toward explaining why you've been lucky enough to do reasonably well with your OEM Kenda tires when so many others haven't?!

As a bit of an aside, but still along those lines, you can't by any chance recall if you ever checked/knew what your Spyder's rear tire pressure was on delivery, can you? I'm just chasing a thoughty.

I suspect it was the factory’s doing on the 2021 bike as they failed to connect the rear ride height leveling sensor, so I doubt if they did an alignment.

The 2026 bike, I don’t know as it was perfect when I picked it up.

The 2021 bike was 2 psi low at 26 psi, but then again when I checked it the next day in the morning, it was freezing cold so it was probably set correctly in the workshop.

The 2026 model was at 30 psi, but there again I checked it when I got home and the temperature was pretty high in the evening when I picked it up. I left it at 30 psi as I presumed it would be nearly down to 28 in the morning. It was.

I check the pressures often in the front, but at my age, doing the rear is somewhat harder but it seems to stay at 28 fairly consistently until the AM temperature changes significantly.

On the 2021 with the OEM Kenda tires, I ran the fronts at 18 and the rear at 28. On the 2026 with the XPS branded Kenda tires I run the fronts at 20 and the rear at 28 unless I’m running two up and fully loaded when I go to 30 on the rear.

I use an auto shutoff tire inflator that stops at the pressure limit you set. I had it checked against a Dunlop race truck’s calibrated device and it was accurate to within 1/4 of a psi and the pressures were repeatable.

I’m very fussy about tire pressures and try to keep them consistent with the baseline I find by trial and error. With the Spyder I find the 20/28 indicated pressures from the under-seat sticker to actually be pretty close to what I like. This is rare as I find my motorcycles and cars often worked out to be different from recommended to suite my driving style.

I think the next step is a set of tire pressure reporting valve caps.

 

[pauly1]

When we visited the factory in 2017, now dated information, they used a simple fixed gauge to "set" the alignment. If all of the manufacturing tolerances were centered, perhaps this was GEMO (good enough, move on) for an assembly line. One important aspect using any method is to load the Spyder with the intended or average weight distribution to compress the suspension components. It is known that the Spyder steering and suspension geometry has significant "bump-steer"; specifically, as the front suspension compresses, toe-in changes - the front of the tire moves outward while the rear of the tire moves inward. That change introduces a bit of twitchy-ness in the handling.

I prefer to use the wheel mounting flange as the reference. I've measured run-out on the center of the hub, where many laser systems attach, and found it to be significant when projected the forward distance to the alignment grid. The hubs appear to not have a machined surface or have uneven paint build up on them. The mounting system for the lasers uses magnetic attachment to the hub. Laser sounds high tech, but alignment is still established with a tape measure and hopefully a flat, planar reference surface like a cement slab.

BUDS is needed to reset the center point for the steering column.

 

[mecsw500]

I played with the toe out and toe in values with somebody sat on the Spyder. Like you say though, the real world value is affected by load and even weight distribution.

It's a game of averages and compromises to be sure. I suspect the factory sets the toe in values that correct for an average rider's weight or an average likely load once ridden. From my measurements with a rider on the bike, it seems the factory built some kind of default load into their settings. Depending upon the rider's weight and the typical load, this may mean the system needs adjusting after a particular customer takes delivery of course.

Tire aspect ratios, sizes and sidewall stiffness, tire pressure and suspension fitment will likely all affect the toe value, especially under braking. It's all a compromise due to the Spyder's rather straightforward and basic suspension geometry with limited adjustability other than toe.

 

[jcthorne]

Lots of good discussion here.

There was a bit above about toe in changing as the front wheels move up and down. This is true. As the front suspension is loaded, the toe in DECREASES. The twitchiness happens as well as steering upset in corners when the toe transitions from toe in to toe out while going through a turn. You need to have enough toe in such the under load and in a hard turn, the toe never transitions to toe out. This is why the Rolo laser alignment specs change depending on load weight on the Spyder. My laser alignment worksheet takes this calculation into account and translates the small and difficult to measure angles to inches measured on the laser alignment targets.

Also discussed above is the need to set the Steering Angle Sensor to zero once toe is adjusted. What is missing and greatly effects steering pull while riding is that the DPS torque sensor also needs to be zeroed with the bike in the zero toe and centered zero turn angle position. Both of these sensors require BUDS to calibrate.