Check Suspension drop down message appears intermittently - any ideas/help?

[Johnb]

2022 F3 limited shows this msg intermittently - can’t find anything on this problem. Any help would be appreciated.
New to the Spyder world, this is my first one.

 

[ned64]

Check to make sure the air compressor is working, look for/listen for air leaks, both of these have to do with the ride air suspension. Also look and make sure the little arm that hooks to the part of frame that goes to the rear tire is connected. If it's unhooked, it will not tell the air system of the ride height. I'm not sure how to explain all of the air ride height system stuff.

 

[Johnb]

Thanks will dig into it this morning.

 

[McClendons]

Also, is your battery in good shape? Not sure if the 2022's used the cheap Chinese batteries or not, but they can cause comms issues that force error messages. Most likely the compressor/suspension, the one I would add to the post above is to make sure the Schrader valve in the system is tight and not leaking.

 

[Mikey]

How is the ride of the bike when it throws that message at you? Is it bottoming out? Can you feel, or hear the compressor when it kicks in, does it seem to run a lot of the time when you're riding it? When you go out to use your bike, before you start it, lift the seat to get to the schrader valve and put a tire gauge on it and check the pressure! There should be some air in the system after a rest overnight, if it has no air then you have a leak somewhere. Break out the soapy water and start to check the whole system to find the leak! Come back and tell us how you made out! Good Luck!

 

[mecsw500]

From what I posted to another forum. To the best of my understanding, this is how the auto ride height system works and can be debugged. It was in an answer to whether someone should fix their rear suspension with a new shock absorber so the situation is not the same question as you are asking, but it may help you debug your issue. I don’t know if the F3S is the same as an RT also. I might also be wrong in the details but here it goes…
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On my 2021 RT LTD when new it threw constant suspension codes and until they replaced everything apart from the shock before it fixed it. After that it worked fine, as does on my new 2026 model.

I'm pretty sure the shock absorber is completely separate from the air suspension system. The spring and shock function as per a normal motorcycle. The air system adjusts the ride height. This can be a manual or automatic system depending upon the year and model. With no air in the system the ride height is low and it bottoms out. With air in the system the ride height is set higher and the shock won't bottom out.

On my system, they first failed to connect the ride height sensor to the swing arm, which caused the pump to run continuously and burn out the pump pretty quickly. CHECK THIS FIRST. The arm has to be bolted to the top of the swing arm about a third of the way back from the pivot. As I found out, this critical PDI item ate though 3 pumps. Then they changed the outlet valve which was always dumping air out of the system slowly, even when the bike was shut off and the ECU was not telling it to. One of the air pipes was leaking at a junction. Also, the manual air Schraeder valve under the passenger where you can insert air or test for pressure leaked too.

I used soapy water to test and find the the leaks at the ECU driven air release valve. That's fun to actually get to. Then it was soapy water for the Schraeder valve under the passenger seat until that was fixed. Soapy water on all the air pipe connections found those leaks. Of course, finding leaks in the air bag itself is a joy to get to to see what is happening.

To find those leaks, I used a bicycle pump to add about 30-40lbs of pressure at the Schraeder valve under the passenger seat and then test everything with the engine off. If you put 40lbs in it in the evening, you should still have very close to 40lbs in the system in the morning. Don't use a compressor, you can easily over pressurize the system beyond the 90lbs limit in seconds.

If all of those are no problem and it still doesn't hold air, it could be the back flow check valve which I believe is inside the pump, i.e. the new pump is faulty too.

Now to test the pump when the bike is running if everything checks out. First, let enough air out of the Schraeder valve to get about 20lbs of pressure. Get someone of medium build to sit on the bike whilst you listen for the pump at the rear. Get them to start the bike, and put it into gear with the parking brake off, holding it on the brake pedal, and you should hear the pump running if you are close to the rear.

Put the bike in neutral, set the parking brake, and turn the bike off. You can measure the rider only pressure at the Schraeder valve under the rear seat. The exact pressure should be enough to compensate for the rider's weight. For my lardy 240lbs body I get about 35-40lbs.

Now, with the bike once again running, in gear, with the parking brake off, and held on the foot brake, get another medium build person to sit on the rear of the bike as well. You should hear the pump add more air for the extra weight of two people as they sit down. Once the pump has stopped, get the second person to get off and you might hear the pressure outlet valve let some air out of the system. Then get the passenger to sit back on and the pump should run again to take it back up to pressure for two people. With two people still on the bike, put it in neutral, set the parking brake, and turn the bike off. Now check the pressure at the Schraeder valve under the seat. It should be holding more pressure than it did with just one person, like 50lbs or so.

After many weeks through COVID this is what the dealer tech and I did as the thing was driving everyone crazy. It would be good after a test ride for an hour by the tech who weighed about 150lbs. I got on it and ran the same route at me being 240lbs and every time I went over a rise in the freeway surface, when the suspension unloaded and the system extended, it would throw fault codes.

We also got fooled because the pump would only do its thing when the bike was running, in gear, and with the parking brake off. Once we figured out how it all worked, we found our way past faulty pumps, pipe junction leaks, outlet valve leaks, and the Schraeder valve leaking. Every time we thought all was good, the problem returned. It was because there was actually one PDI assembly problem and four actual air leak faults. If the pump runs continuously, they can overheat and burn out pretty quickly.

I hope all this helps. This is the best of what I remember we went through but it was five years ago. It drove me mad. I couldn't understand how something as simple as a PDI assembly error and then a pump change would take us down this rabbit hole.

I'm not a Spyder expert but this was my experience. Make sure you get someone who can follow instructions to sit on the Spyder and run it in gear with the parking brake off and not drive through your garage wall. Also, only run the thing with the garage door open.

I really don't think it is your shock absorber at 18,000 miles, and I doubt that would throw fault codes. As far as I can tell, when they replace the shock with an after market item, it has nothing to do with the automatic air ride height system. I'd hate to see you spend a lot of money on a fancy shock absorber until the core issue is fixed.

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I hope some of this helps.

 

[Johnb]

Also, is your battery in good shape? Not sure if the 2022's used the cheap Chinese batteries or not, but they can cause comms issues that force error messages. Most likely the compressor/suspension, the one I would add to the post above is to make sure the Schrader valve in the system is tight and not leaking.

Thanks but the F3 model does not have a Schreader valve.

 

[Johnb]

How is the ride of the bike when it throws that message at you? Is it bottoming out? Can you feel, or hear the compressor when it kicks in, does it seem to run a lot of the time when you're riding it? When you go out to use your bike, before you start it, lift the seat to get to the schrader valve and put a tire gauge on it and check the pressure! There should be some air in the system after a rest overnight, if it has no air then you have a leak somewhere. Break out the soapy water and start to check the whole system to find the leak! Come back and tell us how you made out! Good Luck!

Check for leaks right off I believe I found the problem there was a bad connection at the compressor.

 

[mecsw500]

Check for leaks right off I believe I found the problem there was a bad connection at the compressor.

Do not surmise that this might be the only leak. Back in 2021 when I bought a new 2021 RT LTD, there were actually four leak faults. I'm not say you should be so unlucky but if the leak has been for a while and therefor the pump has been running continuously, be prepared that the pump may have burned itself out.

Fix the leak and then test the system out thoroughly before declaring victory. The system works very well when it works, and it is generally very reliable. However, when problems with leaks occur it can cascade back to taking the pump out too as it can overwork, trying to keep pressure in the system.

Now COVID is over, the supply of replacement pumps I suspect is flowing again. Back when I had my problems COVID had pretty much dried up the supply, which made new pumps a form of inflated currency.

After everything was fixed it all ran perfectly. My new 2026 S2S seems to be running perfectly as well.

Good luck, finger's crossed and I hope you found the issue.

 

[Mikey]

Before I ever would buy another pump, there would be a schrader valve installed and the pump would be out of the picture! Easier fix, less money, less to worry about, and it works just as good!

 

[mecsw500]

The Schraeder valve is already there, it's under the passenger seat on the right for most air suspension Spyders. You would have to blank off, or bypass the pump to seal the system.

However, I like the air suspension. After the initial problems I had, the system works very well and I appreciate it a lot. On my new S2S it works very well and is supremely comfortable and copes with the bike being loaded or not.

Obviously for an F3-S the objectives and riding style might be very different than for a Sea to Sky and a manually adjusted system might be a better use case; for me, I like the automatic system.

 

[Mikey]

The Schraeder valve is already there, it's under the passenger seat on the right for most air suspension Spyders. You would have to blank off, or bypass the pump to seal the system.

However, I like the air suspension. After the initial problems I had, the system works very well and I appreciate it a lot. On my new S2S it works very well and is supremely comfortable and copes with the bike being loaded or not.

Obviously for an F3-S the objectives and riding style might be very different than for a Sea to Sky and a manually adjusted system might be a better use case; for me, I like the automatic system.

It will work great, till it doesn't!!! That's a proven fact, and how much do you want to chase your tail is up to you! Me I want to ride and not have to go through that hassle ever again, been there done that!! Good luck

 

[mecsw500]

It will work great, till it doesn't!!! That's a proven fact, and how much do you want to chase your tail is up to you! Me I want to ride and not have to go through that hassle ever again, been there done that!! Good luck

Using the Schraeder valve underneath the seat and eliminating the pump still leaves the airbag, and all the piping still in place as possible failure points. The air bag and the pipe work are failure points all of their own.

Does removing the pump and integral bleed off valve assembly, or even bypassing it, cause suspension fault codes?

I presume you would have to remove the ride height link on the swing arm and set it in a position relative to its sensor so the ECU always thinks the ride height is permanently correct? The ECU might be awfully confused as it reads from measurements from the ride height sensor and the pump with the integral bleed off valve fails to respond to subsequent requests accordingly by altering the ride height back to the normal level.

Just bypassing or removing the pump assembly is only part of the complex system of feedback loops.

Well that was my experience at any rate. In the end it was easier just to replace the pump and have the system working. I suppose you could rip the whole system out and replace it with a suitable length shock absorber with an external preload and damping controls.

 

[Mikey]

Using the Schraeder valve underneath the seat and eliminating the pump still leaves the airbag, and all the piping still in place as possible failure points. The air bag and the pipe work are failure points all of their own.

Does removing the pump and integral bleed off valve assembly, or even bypassing it, cause suspension fault codes?

I presume you would have to remove the ride height link on the swing arm and set it in a position relative to its sensor so the ECU always thinks the ride height is permanently correct? The ECU might be awfully confused as it reads from measurements from the ride height sensor and the pump with the integral bleed off valve fails to respond to subsequent requests accordingly by altering the ride height back to the normal level.

Just bypassing or removing the pump assembly is only part of the complex system of feedback loops.

Well that was my experience at any rate. In the end it was easier just to replace the pump and have the system working. I suppose you could rip the whole system out and replace it with a suitable length shock absorber with an external preload and damping controls.

That's what you don't understand, when I said put the schrader valve on the system, I meant ripping or disconnecting everything BUT the bag and hooking straight to the bag with the schrader!! You just unhook the dump valve, get a coupling, and hook the pipe from the bag to the schrader! Easy as pie, then all you have to do is find the right air pressure that fits your riding style! Some of the models are already set up this way, and they work just fine this way! Too many folks think this system is some sort of magic system that will give you the perfect ride and comfort that you can't live without, but if they want to mess with compressors, then good for them - not me, and a LOT of other people feel the same way as me! It's just another thing to mess up a good day of riding, ask me how I learned this!

 

[Lyleh]

That's what you don't understand, when I said put the schrader valve on the system, I meant ripping or disconnecting everything BUT the bag and hooking straight to the bag with the schrader!! You just unhook the dump valve, get a coupling, and hook the pipe from the bag to the schrader! Easy as pie, then all you have to do is find the right air pressure that fits your riding style! Some of the models are already set up this way, and they work just fine this way! Too many folks think this system is some sort of magic system that will give you the perfect ride and comfort that you can't live without, but if they want to mess with compressors, then good for them - not me, and a LOT of other people feel the same way as me! It's just another thing to mess up a good day of riding, ask me how I learned this!

I’m looking at doing the same thing, as my pump is not working. Where did you find the coupling to connect the line from the schrader valve to the one that goes to the air bag? It’s a tight fit, but from what I can see, it can be done without disassembling the whole rear bodywork.

 

[mecsw500]

That's what you don't understand, when I said put the schrader valve on the system, I meant ripping or disconnecting everything BUT the bag and hooking straight to the bag with the schrader!! You just unhook the dump valve, get a coupling, and hook the pipe from the bag to the schrader! Easy as pie, then all you have to do is find the right air pressure that fits your riding style! Some of the models are already set up this way, and they work just fine this way! Too many folks think this system is some sort of magic system that will give you the perfect ride and comfort that you can't live without, but if they want to mess with compressors, then good for them - not me, and a LOT of other people feel the same way as me! It's just another thing to mess up a good day of riding, ask me how I learned this!

Did you have to decouple the ride height sensor on the swing arm and force it to be the right static height so the ECU wouldn’t keep sending instructions to the compressor and outlet causing fault codes because there was nothing there to respond? Or does removing the compressor just disable the whole ECU’s idea about equalizing ride height?

 

[Mikey]

I’m looking at doing the same thing, as my pump is not working. Where did you find the coupling to connect the line from the schrader valve to the one that goes to the air bag? It’s a tight fit, but from what I can see, it can be done without disassembling the whole rear bodywork.

Yup, you are going to have to take off that right side panel, if you have a RT, it's tight but what I have done is take the dump valve right out so you can unhook the lines and wire that feeds it, you have to push in hard on the end of the fitting while you pull on the hose, may be wiggle it back and forth and pull, it will come out! Or if you want to do it the fast way, take a sharp knife and square cut the hose so you have a good square cut, take the sharp edge off the outside of the tube just to break the edge so when you hook the lines together, they will slide easily into the coupling! Go to any auto supply house that sells airline parts for a big trucks or go where they repair big trucks and hand them a piece of your air line and tell them you need a coupling! Make sure that the line from the bag, and the line from the schrader are long enough to hook together, if not you will need some line from the parts houses also with the coupling, take the line off the schrader extend the line and hook it the line to the bag.

The bag is only rated for 90lb and you can pump it up carefully, no more than 90lbs!!! I found that for me and the bride 65-70 psi is a good number!!! If you ride solo, 40 psi may be what you need, but that you will have to play with until you find the magic number for you! And of course, wrap all open plugs, watertight them, and check the whole system with soapy water for leaks!! The last one I did for a friend took an hour, but it not being my first one helped a lot!

Ps: make sure you push that line all the way into the fitting till it's in all the way, it will go almost 1/4"-3/16"! Trust me, it sounds harder than it really is!!

 

[Mikey]

Did you have to decouple the ride height sensor on the swing arm and force it to be the right static height so the ECU wouldn’t keep sending instructions to the compressor and outlet causing fault codes because there was nothing there to respond? Or does removing the compressor just disable the whole ECU’s idea about equalizing ride height?

I have never had a code problem, and I have never unhooked the dog bone! It will ride flat once you find the pressure that works for you, it's never been a problem yet! It never threw a code when my pump went south on me in the middle of a 200-mile ride and Mother and I came home basically dead on the frame!!! Now do you want MY opinion of the stock rear SHOCK, if that's what you want to call it!!! It's a CRAPPY system when it fails, great when it works!!! A smart man with a little cash would put a good adjustable coil over shock back there and leave the bag as an overload system for heavy trips! Only put enough air in the bag so you don't pinch a hole in the bag when you don't need it! Load it when you do!! Ok, I am off the soap box!!!! Good Luck!!! Keep it stupid simple and ride more worry less is how I roll in life!!

 

[Lyleh]

Yup, you are going to have to take off that right side panel, if you have a RT, it's tight but what I have done is take the dump valve right out so you can unhook the lines and wire that feeds it, you have to push in hard on the end of the fitting while you pull on the hose, may be wiggle it back and forth and pull, it will come out! Or if you want to do it the fast way, take a sharp knife and square cut the hose so you have a good square cut, take the sharp edge off the outside of the tube just to break the edge so when you hook the lines together, they will slide easily into the coupling! Go to any auto supply house that sells airline parts for a big trucks or go where they repair big trucks and hand them a piece of your air line and tell them you need a coupling! Make sure that the line from the bag, and the line from the schrader are long enough to hook together, if not you will need some line from the parts houses also with the coupling, take the line off the schrader extend the line and hook it the line to the bag.

The bag is only rated for 90lb and you can pump it up carefully, no more than 90lbs!!! I found that for me and the bride 65-70 psi is a good number!!! If you ride solo, 40 psi may be what you need, but that you will have to play with until you find the magic number for you! And of course, wrap all open plugs, watertight them, and check the whole system with soapy water for leaks!! The last one I did for a friend took an hour, but it not being my first one helped a lot!

Ps: make sure you push that line all the way into the fitting till it's in all the way, it will go almost 1/4"-3/16"! Trust me, it sounds harder than it really is!!

Thanks for that description It is an RT so space is tight but I was able to do exactly what you described yesterday with a fitting from the hardware store. I still have a small leak somewhere though as I slowly lose pressure after several hours. Could be a hole in the bag or the fitting at the bag which I can’t access. Thought about trying slime to see if it would seal the bag if it is indeed a hole in the bag.

 

[mecsw500]

Doesn’t slime require centrifugal force like in a tire to work by getting forced into the puncture hole?