Complete Newbie Experiences - 2021 RT Limited

[JohnRtl]

My new to me RT Limited arrived on Friday, looking pristine with 8000 miles on the clock.

I know that getting used to steering behaviour is going to be ‘interesting’ - I rode motorbikes with sidecars fitted for 6 years, and went through a similar process of learning how to go round corners. In the last 25 years I have ridden about 225K miles on ST1100 and ST1300s

I’ve had two short 16 mile rides on the RTL - same roads both times and am making some progress. But it is slow progress. Some observations:

I’m in the UK, we drive on the left - I’ll try to use the terms ‘offside’ and ‘nearside’ to explain. Our roads have a ‘camber’ - ie. they are higher in the middle than they are at the sides, to aid drainage.

I am finding that I am ‘spooked’ by the left hand, nearside wheel being raised by undulations in the road and by roads which do not have the normal camber. I can shift my position in the saddle, effectively leaning myself to the left/nearside to make me feel more confident.

When a similar thing happens on the offside/right hand side it is much less of a worry. I’ve got used to the fact that the camber has an effect on the steering.

These behaviours are consistent with 40 year old memories of riding with a sidecar - on left hand/nearside bends/turning towards the chair, it was more sensitive in that the chair would lift off the ground. The Spyder shouldn’t be different depending which way I turn. I’m thinking maybe 40 year old muscle memory?

Getting rid of the reflex counter steer action to correct my position will be slow progress, but I caught myself reacting instinctively yesterday - about to push on the left bar to correct a slight drift to the right (offside) when taking a left hand bend and corrected myself before I pushed on the wrong bar. I am very wary of taking sharp left hand /nearside turns, yet once in them, I can turn more tightly and apply more power and more steering to get round. Ditto roundabouts - offside/right hand side/clockwise turning - I am entering slowly and pick up speed while maintaining the same steering input.

On the way back yesterday, there was mist, and the road was damp - on accelerating gently up hill (I never got above 45mph for the whole trip) the rear end seemed to wander and I was automatically correcting with the steering - rapid right/left/right/left to keep the Spyder going straight ahead. Of course, I eased off the throttle, and assumed that it was wheel spin.

I am assuming that I am just getting used to the Spyder. I know that it took me a couple of weeks to get used to having a sidecar. But my being more nervous about left/nearside turns than right/offside turns is odd.

Comment welcome, especially from people who can remember their first few rides with a Spyder.

 

[Mrmikey]

Just bought mine last year and never having ridden one before. At 70 my Kawi Voyager was getting a bit much.
My first trip home from when I bought it, I was thinking to my self, "what have I done!" I couldn't keep it straight and was wandering all over the place, couldn't keep it on the road at anything over 50-60kms. I'd drive with a death grip on the bars.
I kept at it, and one day, 'bout a month or so later, I looked down and was doing 120+, one hand on the bars, the other scratching my leg, it was a 'wtf' moment! LOL. I'm wishing now I had bought one sooner.
Only complaint I have about the Spyder is its lack of storage after being used to the Voyager.
It'll come, give it time.

 

[Woodaddict]

May need to check alignment of front wheels. It's only a toe in/ out process. If any dealer or shop had the ROLO laser alignment over there in UK, that is best way to go. I had mine done after about 1.25 yrs, made a huge difference in going thru turns. After it's much more smoother steering, before I was constantly moving handlebars to get thru turn.

And YEP, rarely do these machines come with correct alignment

 

[Monk/Bob]

I believe old muscle memory is real!! After fighting it the last few months, things are finally settling into place. My RT has about 1,800 miles on it, so I’m hoping the worst is over in the muscle memory department.

The first 500 miles were very tough with me thinking I had made a mistake. I’m happy to say my last ride moved into the feeling of pure Joy! I still have things to work on, but believe now I can get there.

This will work, enjoy the ride!!

 

[Redbeard]

It took me quite a while to overcome muscle memory of counter steering. So give yourself some time to get accustomed to the Spyder. Now I call my steering "counter pushing" meaning if I am taking a left hand turn I push with the opposite leg. I had read one suggestion using the cloverleafs on the interstates (highway roads) and driving them for a day to get used to how the Spyder goes around corners. Coach Bob 3 has good videos regarding the Spyders over on youtube. Here are two suggestions he has about steering a Spyder that may be useful to you:

 

[Dusterdude]

It is one hell of a learning curve

 

[RayBJ]

Try to relax your hands and 'guide' the Spyder. Crowned roads are a pain but I just keep a steady pressure on the pulling side. Fast cornering is done best when you lean in and forward to shift some weight to the inside wheel. If you didn't replace the OEM sway bar, you'll struggle more.

 

[Br549rick]

Make sure tire pressures are correct first... and relax your grip on hbars. It just takes time to acclimate... Good luck.

 

[RayBJ]

Speaking of tires, if they are Kendas, that could explain your tail wagging. Tire pressures are important to keep in a tight range. Non-Kenda tires and sway bar is the way to go for best stability.

 

[Jackhartjr]

Speaking of tires, if they are Kendas, that could explain your tail wagging. Tire pressures are important to keep in a tight range. Non-Kenda tires and sway bar is the way to go for best stability.

I'm with RayBJ. I had 2 Spyders with kendas, (I can't even make myself capitalize kenda.)
I put Vredesteins on them and the ride improved 100 percent! Yes, that much!
Most of our roads here have a crown in the middle. So I doubt that it's your problem.
Enjoy!

 

[JohnRtl]

Crowned roads are a pain but I just keep a steady pressure on the pulling side. Fast cornering is done best when you lean in and forward to shift some weight to the inside wheel.

Thanks for the Reply @RayBJ - I discovered that was the most re-assuring thing to do. I certainly used to lean heavily on the sidecar side when I rode a combination, and the same trick seems to give me more confidence. Although I noticed a couple of times that having leant as far as I could to the left when exiting from a junction (left is nearside), I hadn't steered enough - so I just pulled on the left bar and it turned the extra without issue, no indication that I needed to be leaning at all. So I think that most of what I am doing is probably not necessary at the ridiculously slow speeds that I am riding (compared to doing the same manoeuvre on a solo bike).

Speaking of tires, if they are Kendas, that could explain your tail wagging. Tire pressures are important to keep in a tight range. Non-Kenda tires and sway bar is the way to go for best stability.

I'll bear that in mind when I get to needing new tyres. Thanks. (I haven't yet checked the make - I suspect that they are what were fitted at new). It only happened the once and it was on a damp road. Earlier in the ride on dry roads it accelerated much more rapidly with no issues whatsoever.

 

[RayBJ]

BTW, I lift the front inside wheel most often while pulling away from a stop while turning. Akin to pulling a baby wheelie from quick start.

 

[JohnRtl]

Just had a new key cut. Non-chipped, but useful for saving wear and tear on the chipped ignition key.
For reference the JMA ZA9P1 blank works a treat. (2021 RT Ltd)

Previous bad experience with a Honda HISS key which are made of a soft alloy, taught me this trick. I always used the non-chipped steel key when I was just working on the bike in the garage and when I was loading/unloading. Panniers, fairing pocket, seat, and pannier release could not be carried out without a key. It put a lot of wear and tear on the soft alloy.

The Spyder OEM ignition key is much better in this respect - it is steel, and unlike the Honda, pannier, top box, and seat release do not need a key to open. Nevertheless, it is handy to have such keys for the pillion.

 

[weeneil]

My new to me RT Limited arrived on Friday, looking pristine with 8000 miles on the clock.

I know that getting used to steering behaviour is going to be ‘interesting’ - I rode motorbikes with sidecars fitted for 6 years, and went through a similar process of learning how to go round corners. In the last 25 years I have ridden about 225K miles on ST1100 and ST1300s

I’ve had two short 16 mile rides on the RTL - same roads both times and am making some progress. But it is slow progress. Some observations:

I’m in the UK, we drive on the left - I’ll try to use the terms ‘offside’ and ‘nearside’ to explain. Our roads have a ‘camber’ - ie. they are higher in the middle than they are at the sides, to aid drainage.

I am finding that I am ‘spooked’ by the left hand, nearside wheel being raised by undulations in the road and by roads which do not have the normal camber. I can shift my position in the saddle, effectively leaning myself to the left/nearside to make me feel more confident.

When a similar thing happens on the offside/right hand side it is much less of a worry. I’ve got used to the fact that the camber has an effect on the steering.

These behaviours are consistent with 40 year old memories of riding with a sidecar - on left hand/nearside bends/turning towards the chair, it was more sensitive in that the chair would lift off the ground. The Spyder shouldn’t be different depending which way I turn. I’m thinking maybe 40 year old muscle memory?

Getting rid of the reflex counter steer action to correct my position will be slow progress, but I caught myself reacting instinctively yesterday - about to push on the left bar to correct a slight drift to the right (offside) when taking a left hand bend and corrected myself before I pushed on the wrong bar. I am very wary of taking sharp left hand /nearside turns, yet once in them, I can turn more tightly and apply more power and more steering to get round. Ditto roundabouts - offside/right hand side/clockwise turning - I am entering slowly and pick up speed while maintaining the same steering input.

On the way back yesterday, there was mist, and the road was damp - on accelerating gently up hill (I never got above 45mph for the whole trip) the rear end seemed to wander and I was automatically correcting with the steering - rapid right/left/right/left to keep the Spyder going straight ahead. Of course, I eased off the throttle, and assumed that it was wheel spin.

I am assuming that I am just getting used to the Spyder. I know that it took me a couple of weeks to get used to having a sidecar. But my being more nervous about left/nearside turns than right/offside turns is odd.

Comment welcome, especially from people who can remember their first few rides with a Spyder.

Hi John and welcome to a forum that is educational. I bought our Spyder RTL September last year and used it all winter. At first I thought I had made a very expensive mistake, but as the miles clocked up, so did my confidence. At around 1500 miles I knew I had made a good choice. 50 yrs on two wheels is not easy to change, but relax and it will work for you too.

 

[weeneil]

Thanks for the Reply @RayBJ - I discovered that was the most re-assuring thing to do. I certainly used to lean heavily on the sidecar side when I rode a combination, and the same trick seems to give me more confidence. Although I noticed a couple of times that having leant as far as I could to the left when exiting from a junction (left is nearside), I hadn't steered enough - so I just pulled on the left bar and it turned the extra without issue, no indication that I needed to be leaning at all. So I think that most of what I am doing is probably not necessary at the ridiculously slow speeds that I am riding (compared to doing the same manoeuvre on a solo bike).



I'll bear that in mind when I get to needing new tyres. Thanks. (I haven't yet checked the make - I suspect that they are what were fitted at new). It only happened the once and it was on a damp road. Earlier in the ride on dry roads it accelerated much more rapidly with no issues whatsoever.

At 8000 mls, the rear tyre could be ready for change. I have just fitted a new rear at 6,7750 mls, swapping OEM for a Vredstein 205/60/15. It feels ok and I hope for better mileage.

 

[JohnRtl]

Back on the learning curve. The Spyder was wheeled out into the sunshine yesterday and we went out for a longer ride than my 3 x 16 mile excursions early in December. So 3 months ago.

The same feelings of being tipped at each slight change of camber under the front wheels. I know that it’s not possible, as the Trike (Tryke?) sits quite happily on my sideways on my sloping drive. Nevertheless...

But this time, improvement was quite rapid. Talking to myself before each corner - steer it left John, don’t countersteer. That seemed to work except when the bend tightened and a bit more effort was required - it was so tempting to put on a bit more ‘lean’ to the left by pushing harder on the left bar. That extra steer left effort to get round is exaggerated because the speed is the same, but it goes round quite happily. Of course it does. It’s not the Tryke, it is what is happening in my head.

At 20 miles I realised that I was gripping the bars tight, and forced myself to relax. There’s a conflict of ideas - forced relaxation. But I did relax and that felt much better. Now for some twisties - a long slalom route that I know well - except now road positioning is different and the learned steering input is completely different. This should mess around with what my brain knows.

I didn’t need the brake, so I practiced taking my foot away from it and how to find it quickly - it’s actually much further forward than I thought, but having mastered that I rode with my feet flat footed on the platforms. What a difference. With feet firmly planted flat, the brain is getting a clear signal of where ‘level’ is. The sensation of the bike tipping over as I cross the centre line disappeared - UK roads have a high centre and lower gutter - and all sensation of bike tipping disappeared. My brain had a point of reference. Better still, I realised that this was like skiing - I’ve not done that for over 50 years, but the recall of zig-zagging down the slope by pressing on the outside ski, came back. Take the weight on my leg on the outside footboard and all rogue sensations of tipping over disappeared - but curiously returned if I needed to brake. My feet needed to be flat on the boards.

But this was impressive progress. The return 40 miles from the cafe was much faster than the ride to the cafe. I really feel that I can start to learn to ride this beast.

So now, some advice needed please. What is the best way to take a corner. I was never a knee down hero on a solo bike - get the road position and speed right, tip it into the corner balancing the countersteer lean with the throttle, watch the arrowhead and accelerate out to lift the bike up as the arrowhead started moving away.

I’ve had two contradictory sensations with the Tryke - on roundabouts start the turn and it responds to powering it round.
But on bends on the road, increasing the power makes the turning more difficult - as it would with two steering wheels - and there is no differential where the power helps with the turning. So increasing power mid corner makes the turn harder - the reflex to countersteer to lean the bike more kicks in again.

Common sense says just enter at the right speed and keep that speed if the curve remains the same. Safe. But is there a better technique? I’m certainly not interested in drifting the back wheel suggestions!

 

[Mrmikey]

I know where you're coming from, I was in the same boat when I got my rig last year, to the point I was considering getting rid of it. Once I learned to relax, not fight it, it was like night and day.
For turns, I lean into the turn even to the point of shifting on the seat a bit depending on the circumstances, and give it a bit of power going thru it, similar to a sled. Now, going thru roundabouts I find it not unusual to lift the inside tire a bit. One of the things I've found, make sure you look thru the turn, same as you would on a bike. I'm more confident on my Spyder than I was on a bike.
The rural road where I live is an 80KM twisty road which I did on my previous ride, a Kawi Voyager. Now if I'm feeling 'sporty' I'll be up to 90-100 no problem at all. Stick with it, it'll come..