Downshifting vs Braking

[bullet33912]

I have always downshifted on my other bikes. The thing I have noticed on my F3 Limited is it takes about 2 seconds after the downshift for the bike to actually start to decel. To me, it actually feels like the bike accelerates a bit on downshift. I have started leading my downshift point a bit to compensate. I only have a few hundred miles on the F3 Limited, but it is a bit of a different ball game on the downshift to me (and I may be wrong but it's how it feels to me).

 

[Mikey]

Bought my first Spyder Nov 23 (23 RTL) after 50 years riding two wheelers. The weather is finally cooperating and I have started doing some serious riding. I'm loving the RTL. I have managed to stop grabbing for the clutch and hand brake and I'm getting comfortable shifting with the paddles. I'm fine downshifting for a stop, but when I let the bike downshift it often bucks and lurches when it shifts into 1st. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal. Is it something I'm doing? not doing?

You say it's lurches when it downshifts on its own, I would have to say that's not normal, and if it was me maybe I would take it to the shop and have it checked out, or find a friend that has a Spyder and let them try it and see what they think, and maybe you could try there's to ease your mind one way or another! Good luck

 

[Bartender]

My attention was drawn to this thread because of recent discussions with my two wheeled riding friends. Until two years ago, I had ridden two wheels for 50+ years and had developed a habit of controlling speed with the use of the transmission so I continued that practice when I moved to a Spyder after spending quality time in the hospital recovering from the effects of Covid. Anyway, several of my two wheeled riding buddies started commenting about how quickly I was scrubbing speed at corners or any other reason to slow and reminded me that when downshifting to slow my brake lights were not being activated and they didn't have adequate warning of a change of speed. I was tempted to remind them that they are responsible for being aware of the vehicles in front of them but then realized that they had a legitimate complaint and vehicles had stop lights for a reason, so, I started tapping my brakes even when downshifting just to give those behind me a warning I was changing speed. I haven't quit downshifting or decreased the amount of engine control I am using to control speed, just added some brake use to flash the brake lights. So this comment just to remind all of us that there may be more to this discussion than just the merits of wear on brake pads, engines and transmissions.

 

[EdMat]

I have always downshifted on my other bikes. The thing I have noticed on my F3 Limited is it takes about 2 seconds after the downshift for the bike to actually start to decel. To me, it actually feels like the bike accelerates a bit on downshift. I have started leading my downshift point a bit to compensate. I only have a few hundred miles on the F3 Limited, but it is a bit of a different ball game on the downshift to me (and I may be wrong but it's how it feels to me).

Is it possible that you are blipping the throttle when downshifting? Doing so confuses the bike. It does not know if you are downshifting to accelerate or slow down.

Let off the throttle, flick the paddle to downshift, and the bike will throttle match, activate the clutch, downshift, and be back at idle almost instantly.

 

[Snoking1127]

This guy is 100%, exactly right. Good Job!

Drivers of every stripe in Arizona must go through a lot of brake pads. As they all seem to race up to a red light and throw the anchor out at the last minute. When I see a red light, I tap the brake pedal to cancel cruise control, or let up on the throttle and coast towards the light watching my mirrors; and people will switch lanes and continue to race towards the red light! Most of the time the light will turn green just before I have to brake to a complete stop. Speeding in Arizona also seem to be a right of passage! My home brewed third brake light flashes for 6 seconds and then goes steady. And repeats every time I use the brakes.

The Champagne has a 4 LED strobe and the Asphalt Grey one three, as the supply of the 4 LED array no longer has the extra wire for cruise (AKA on steady).
SxS has the 4 LED array also.

 

[ThreeWheels]

You must've got yourself a bit mixed up ThreeWheels, so I fixed it for you in the Quote above! :thumbup:

hyea: :2thumbs:

Thanks so much for your help Peter, but I stand by my original comments. You are correct, there are many options. The ECU should prevent the driver from blowing the engine. I slow down using my brakes and the Spyder then downshifts itself accordingly. Others are welcome to ride any way they wish.

 

[RealWing]

My ‘22 RTL also accelerates slightly on a paddle downshift.

 

[EdMat]

My ‘22 RTL also accelerates slightly on a paddle downshift.

Are you completely off the throttle when you downshift?

 

[Navydad]

My ‘22 RTL also accelerates slightly on a paddle downshift.

Mine does too. It isn't actually accelerating as much as free wheeling which allows it to speed up a bit on the downhill especially. There is a bit of lag, maybe a second or so, before the clutch re-engages after the shift.

 

[seaweed]

I have a module on my Spyder that will flash the brake light 4 times then go solid red when I apply the brake. I normally attempt to coast up to a stop, first taping the brake, then a combination of letting the engine downshift and using the brake.

The tapping of the brake also will take the bike out of cruise control if I have it applied.

If am sitting at a light and see a vehicle approaching behind me, I will apply the brake to flash my brake lights then go solid red. This is to alert the driver that I am stopped. This normally cause the driver of the vehicle to stop well behind me.

 

[BCNewell]

I do a lot of engine braking. My Daytona is a SM6 !! What’s the problem ?!?!? :clap:

 

[BCNewell]

To each his own. Don’t think computer will let you do anything to really hurt the engine on the SE trannies.

 

[Snoking1127]

I downshift on hills all the time to control speed, and sometimes coming to a stop sign. If they did not want you down shifting the SE6, they would have blocked it from occurring. It is a feature they gave us, so use it if you want to or don't use it. It is up to the rider!

 

[troop]

Couldn't imagine not using engine braking when riding the twisties. I regularly manually downshift.

 

[BajaRon]

I know all the arguments that the Spyders are designed for downshifting. Nevertheless brakes cost far less than transmissions. I slow down using brakes. Why tempt fate?

Wearing out a transmission with engine braking is a myth.

I've been riding and wrenching on mine and others bikes since 1969. I've replaced a great number of brake pads, shoes (for those who even know what they are) and rotors. Never once have I known or heard of anyone needing to replace any transmission components because of engine braking. Most motorcycle riders use it all the time.

Using the correct lubricant, your transmission gears rarely or never touch even under hard acceleration. Engine braking puts less load on your gears than does hard acceleration. If you're going to wear gears, it will be with the hours upon hours your moving forward. Not the few moments you're using engine braking. Plus, engine braking engages the back side of the gear teeth. The side that cannot wear at all unless you use engine braking.

With big advantages to engine braking and no downsides, it's a very good habit to get into. You'll be riding safer, and saving money on brakes and rotors the entire time.

 

[Allen42]

I didn't read every post to see if this was mentioned, but when in traffic I use the brake to make sure my brake lights come on for the cars behind me.

 

[BajaRon]

I didn't read every post to see if this was mentioned, but when in traffic I use the brake to make sure my brake lights come on for the cars behind me.

Yes, and highly recommended to use both engine braking and at least a light touch on the brakes. Lets people behind you know what you're doing and also prepares you for a stop quicker than you expected.

 

[Jesster72]

About a 50/50 split for me - depending on where and how I am riding. I'm not that aggressive, so I don't think I load up either system when slowing down.

 

[ThreeWheels]

Wearing out a transmission with engine braking is a myth.

Perhaps so, but my first Spyder, a 2010 model (which, by the way, handled like a dead pig until you came out with your sway bar upgrade) had the clutch plates go with only 10,000 miles in less than a year.
BRP didn't want to replace the clutch plates under warranty, saying that the clutch was a wear item and this was normal wear for a big bike. I'd had several big bikes prior to my Spyder with no clutch problems at all. I still miss my 1984 Yamaha Venture Royal XVZ12.

I replied, so let me understand, the clutch wears out before the brakes? At that point BRP was kind enough to replace the clutch plates.
Again, I ask why tempt fate if you don't need to.
Of course when braking for long periods of time, such as going downhill, engine braking is best. But in daily traffic?
We all have our little quirks, and that's mine.
I stand by my comments but have no need for anyone to copy my style or preferences. To each, their own.
You say potato, I say potato....................

 

[bikerbillone]

Yo Mike, no war here, light on/off foot brake is my method of choice, unless of course conditions dictates differently. Nanny pretty much figures it all out for me and makes riding a real joy.